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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:10 pm
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The YouTube clip makes no point at all. By analogy, Trump passes a law ordering the murder of every first born child, but granting free tertiary education. Vox Pop, when asked if they like free tertiary education and told it is a Sanders policy, say they like it. So what ?
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Pies4shaw Leo

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Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:29 am
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Roy Moore managed to lose the Alabama Special Election. The Bannon/Trump axis has been served up a severe beating.
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Jezza Taurus

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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:31 am
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That's one way to interpret the results.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:00 am
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Whatever the case, losing a Senate seat is a huge blow for his legislative agenda. 52-48 is now 51-49, and with difficult customers like Bob Corker and John McCain on the Republican side, we could soon be seeing even more Obama-like frustrations.
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:50 am
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I did laugh when I read that the Alabama Supreme Court ruled during the week that it is not illegal to delete the voting data - the intention being the Democrats couldn't demand a recount. Shocked Laughing Laughing A few US contacts say Moore lost because all the Blacks voted.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:52 am
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Where? What is laugh when he or she read that the Alabama Supreme Court ruled during the week that it?
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:40 am
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David wrote:
Whatever the case, losing a Senate seat is a huge blow for his legislative agenda. 52-48 is now 51-49, and with difficult customers like Bob Corker and John McCain on the Republican side, we could soon be seeing even more Obama-like frustrations.

Well, at least the Senate will be spared the spectacle of a swastika-branded Incitatus on the floor of the house.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:17 am
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Jezza wrote:
That's one way to interpret the results.

Other than the Bannon-Press, no-one who can read and write (if "read and write" is the threshold requirement, I didn't need to qualify the start of the sentence with "other than", did I?) is offering any different interpretation.

So, eg:

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article169104711/Der-radikale-Cowboy-der-Trump-rechts-ueberholt.html

https://www.welt.de/newsticker/dpa_nt/afxline/topthemen/hintergruende/article171537399/Trumps-hausgemachte-Schlappe-in-der-Republikaner-Hochburg.html

http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/article/2017/12/13/en-alabama-la-victoire-democrate-est-un-revers-politique-majeur-pour-trump_5228739_3222.html

http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2017/12/13/en-alabama-moore-le-fou-de-dieu-battu-a-la-surprise-generale_1616304

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/as-democrats-add-senate-seat-gop-left-to-bicker-over-what-happened-in-alabama/2017/12/13/61bf59f2-dff6-11e7-8679-a9728984779c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_alabamaweb-708am-duplicate%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.30e13a2e13b9

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/12/13/alabama-election-result-seen-as-miracle-in-a-europe-horrified-by-trump/?utm_term=.9066f14aab1d

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/12/roy-moore-loses-alabama-senate-race-doug-jones-wins

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/12/roy-moore-defeat-trump-future-republican-party-trumpism - an extract:

"For Democrats, the winning way is pretty clear: run against the demagoguery and divisive politics of Donald Trump.

For Republicans, the lessons are just as clear, but far harder to follow. In the coming weeks and months, Republicans now need to wrestle with something they have happily ignored for the last year. Alabama’s results will hasten the existential question facing every GOP member of Congress who faces re-election next year: is it better or worse to break with Donald Trump?

Until Alabama, this seemed like an easy calculation. Trump’s obvious failings, his freakish nature and his abusive conduct were all brushed aside because he seemed to have a lock on his party. Who could stand against Trump except senators who already said they were retiring from politics?

Now the balance has shifted dramatically. Who can afford to stand with Trump when the Democratic voters are so energized they turn out in numbers huge enough to overturn the monumental Republican majority in Alabama?"

The best recent piece I've seen on Moore was written in the lead-up to the election: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/11/the-prospect-of-a-roy-moore-victory-should-make-your-stomach-churn-with-fear

"Raoul Peck’s chilling James Baldwin documentary, I Am Not Your Negro, features original footage of swastika-toting white youths in southern states during protests against desegregation in the 50s. Young people I’ve discussed it with professed astonishment that, so soon after the second world war, Americans could publicly fly the Nazi symbol. Now at least we know what all those lean, button-collared white Nazis from Alabama in the 50s went on to do. Half a lifetime later, a man they believe shares their values could get into the Senate."

A couple of years back, Jeff Sessions got 97% of the vote for the very same Senate seat. But then, he didn't speak to African-Americans in public wistfully about the good ole days when family values mattered, "even though we had slavery". This result was like Collingwood losing to a drunk scratch 22 from Keilor. The fact that Bannon is trying now to pretend that he wasn't really behind Moore is contrary to all the indications (and all the facts, of course) that Moore was the first step on a grand plan to push the GOP further to the right.
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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:57 am
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According to smh/watoday , Trump would still be elected today

http://www.watoday.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/donald-trump-would-be-elected-again-if-us-election-held-today-says-joe-hockey-20171214-h04yf6.html

While the democrats and the left in general continue to scream: nazi, insert whateveraphobe; Trump and those worse than him will continue to be elected. The Roy Moore result does not represent a huge cultural shift and if it did whats next? voting for progressive creepy groping Joe Biden?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy07yHAgM4E


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/02/18/what-are-we-going-to-do-about-creepy-uncle-joe-biden/?utm_term=.dc98583ff2ae

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-vicepresident-joe-biden-in-new-creepy-photo-with-wife-of-defence-secretary-ashton-carter-20150217-13hp6a.html

The same reasons creepy Joe wont get elected are the same as why Roy Moore did not get elected.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:56 am
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Well, sure, if Joe Hockey says so... no reason to doubt his judgement!
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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:09 am
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^
Ah forgot the rules.. only verified leftist sources should be used in the echo chamber...... besides what would an ambassador know about politics in Washington when you can read Vox or Buzzfeed.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:33 am
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^ If Vox or BuzzFeed (or a publication I actually read) claimed that Trump would win or lose an election held today and then backed it up with no evidence whatsoever, I would be equally sceptical.

As an ambassador, Hockey probably knows a fair bit about diplomatic relations, and may well have insight into the inner workings of the administration. I don’t believe he has any more idea than you or me about the general sentiment among the American public or how Trump would fare against a half-decent candidate in key swing states.

Seeing as how you brought up Alabama, I think the thing that should worry Trump most there is the huge mobilisation of African-American voters in that election. You can be sure that plenty of people who stayed home last time or voted for a third party will turn out to vote next time around, just to get rid of him – so it won’t be enough to keep the base happy; he’ll have to win over a great many new voters too. I’m not saying he can’t do it, but I just don’t think anyone could justifiably claim with any confidence based on what we’ve seen so far that he’d win an election held today.

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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:46 am
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https://www.dailywire.com/news/24641/shapiro-national-review-there-only-one-trump-and-ben-shapiro#

Shapiro explains it better than all the lefty rags, and he's pretty much one of the #nevertrump Conservatives, so not part of the cheer squad.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:43 pm
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I guess the expression "all the lefty rags" is code for "all the viable presses in the entire free world that are sufficiently credible that people will pay to read them".
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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:53 am
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[quote="David"]^ If Vox or BuzzFeed (or a publication I actually read) claimed that Trump would win or lose an election held today and then backed it up with no evidence whatsoever, I would be equally sceptical.

As an ambassador, Hockey probably knows a fair bit about diplomatic relations, and may well have insight into the inner workings of the administration. I don’t believe he has any more idea than you or me about the general sentiment among the American public or how Trump would fare against a half-decent candidate in key swing states.

The USA is one of the few diplomatic posts that are gifts from the PM and are politically motivated. He is not there necessarily becuase he understands dipomacy but does know the political intent of the Government. He essentially a lobbyist. Real diplomats have to deal with other problems. Official visits, drunken idiots crashing motorbikes, marriage breakdowns and custody disputes, apologising for stupid comments by the politicians and hosting trade missions , negotaiting extraditions etc. Joe Hockey and his ilk are there to hit the cocktail circuit and have lavish dinners with the CEOs of multinationals. The only contact he would have with the average American would be at his hotel when he visits LA or New York and has his shoes shined or goes to the pictures. They won't know who he is and won't be sharing anything with him. That and the High Commissoiner for the Uk and Irelans and maybe New Zealand would be the only posts held by people without fluency in another language.

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