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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Pebbles Rocks wrote: | “Realistic appraisal of the possible fallout”
You sound like bank manager at the royal commission.
How we grieve over the loss of someone we love is different for everyone. Also the support we feel we can give can be very different.
If our coaching staff were utterly insensitive then I would expect some fallout but I strongly suspect they get it and your speculation is not realistic at all. |
Fair enough. It seems likely to be true to me, but it wasn’t worth the aggro it elicited. Stui’s comment engaged with the idea effectively. My controversy meter might need adjusting.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | ^ in truth, when you manage people it’s the context that counts - your whole experience of them, their talent, attitude and ability to cope with adversity. Since few lead lives without significant personal adversity, those who fight through personal difficulties are often those who make it to the top. It isn’t a judgement about the worth of the individual, but it is about the ability of the person to impact the world. If that opinion upsets you terribly, then so be it. I still thought Buckley looked a bit tense about it. |
It's an interesting question.
In my past life as a manager, before I was an unemployed bum, I was probably soft on people who I thought added something.
Case in point, there was 1 woman who irritated me because she had tissue paper for skin. The slightest harshness, she would bust into tears. I had to calm her down multiple times because someone abused her over the phone. I couldn't get my head around how someone had got to near 60, raised kids and held down a job, but hadn't grown up..
A month ago I got a call from someone I used to work with. We had a long conversation during which she outlined a number of things that had become worse since I left. The example that stuck with me, was about that woman. She took a day off work because of her adult daughter and pregnancy issues. The new me called her into a meeting and apparently read her the riot act. That's as the 2 up manager, not direct manager.
It would have annoyed me, but I would have let it slide. She is/was a heart and soul of the team person, someone who you want to manage a dignified exit for over a period of time. Belting into her sets an example, but not one I would have wanted to set.
Whatever Murray's reasons where, and we don't need to know them, I trust that Bucks and the club will manage it appropriately |
Ok since mugwump is using you for backup, I’ll address this too. Do you think she deserved to be abused over the phone? Why not hate on the perpetrator instead of the victim? Do you tell victims of bully’s to ‘grow up?’
Her pregnant daughter had an issue, and she took a day, isn’t she intitled to sick leave? Holidays? Or did she expect a day with pay for nothing? I doubt that very much.yet this would have annoyed you but you’d let it slide. How very generous of you! How empathetic of you!
At least your last paragraph is correct! Cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Mugwump wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | The. I’d be as disappointed in the club as I am in you |
We’ll both live. Ditto Tannin. |
There is living and there is existing
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | ^ in truth, when you manage people it’s the context that counts - your whole experience of them, their talent, attitude and ability to cope with adversity. Since few lead lives without significant personal adversity, those who fight through personal difficulties are often those who make it to the top. It isn’t a judgement about the worth of the individual, but it is about the ability of the person to impact the world. If that opinion upsets you terribly, then so be it. I still thought Buckley looked a bit tense about it. |
It's an interesting question.
In my past life as a manager, before I was an unemployed bum, I was probably soft on people who I thought added something.
Case in point, there was 1 woman who irritated me because she had tissue paper for skin. The slightest harshness, she would bust into tears. I had to calm her down multiple times because someone abused her over the phone. I couldn't get my head around how someone had got to near 60, raised kids and held down a job, but hadn't grown up..
A month ago I got a call from someone I used to work with. We had a long conversation during which she outlined a number of things that had become worse since I left. The example that stuck with me, was about that woman. She took a day off work because of her adult daughter and pregnancy issues. The new me called her into a meeting and apparently read her the riot act. That's as the 2 up manager, not direct manager.
It would have annoyed me, but I would have let it slide. She is/was a heart and soul of the team person, someone who you want to manage a dignified exit for over a period of time. Belting into her sets an example, but not one I would have wanted to set.
Whatever Murray's reasons where, and we don't need to know them, I trust that Bucks and the club will manage it appropriately |
Ok since mugwump is using you for backup, I’ll address this too. Do you think she deserved to be abused over the phone? Why not hate on the perpetrator instead of the victim? Do you tell victims of bully’s to ‘grow up?’
Her pregnant daughter had an issue, and she took a day, isn’t she intitled to sick leave? Holidays? Or did she expect a day with pay for nothing? I doubt that very much.yet this would have annoyed you but you’d let it slide. How very generous of you! How empathetic of you!
At least your last paragraph is correct! Cheers |
I’m not using Stui for backup. He’s not especially supporting what I wrote. He just wrote some thoughts which actually reflected on the question, from the perspective of someone who has had to wrestle with the tension between individual reality and team, and the weight we give to individual feeling vs wider needs under different objective circumstances.
Anyway, looking back at my first post, it still seems to me true, but I can see that I failed to wrap it in the expected condolences, and could have put it more emolliently. My fault, no doubt, but I never feel very sincere expressing sympathies when I do not know somone personally - that always feels a bit pious, to me. And I learned long ago not to personalize stuff. So sorry if I caused offence, and I’m done.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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To be honest this thread needs to be locked. before it descends into a bigger shitfight and because whatever Sam Murray has issues with his business and I am sure the club doesn't want, need or deserve idiots turning up on his door asking for comment.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Sympathy and empathy are not the same thing.
Agree ronrat, although I’d prefer it was deleted, it’s an embarrassment
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Move it to the VPT.
I get what Mugwump is saying, although not in this situation.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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TP,
To answer your questions,
No, she didn't deserve to get abused over the phone but it's part of working in payroll. People get very narky when it's related to their pay. There's a number of ways to deal with it and she'd been given coaching. I had in the past, where practical, taken action against people who got abusive over the phone.
As far as the leave goes, it was paid leave but as her daughter was a married adult you could mount an argument that she didn't need to take time off, she wanted to.
FWIW I understand exactly where Mugwump was coming from and, in certain circumstances, that's exactly what would happen.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Abdul The Bull
Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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Interesting. This thread is now at four pages. Privacy or not, had the club came out directly and stated that "Murray was taking a leave of absence due to a death in the family" I doubt that there would be all this speculation.
Sometimes, the best way to ensure privacy and minimise scuttlebutt is to provide more, not less information.
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There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Abdul The Bull wrote: | Interesting. This thread is now at four pages. Privacy or not, had the club came out directly and stated that "Murray was taking a leave of absence due to a death in the family" I doubt that there would be all this speculation.
Sometimes, the best way to ensure privacy and minimise scuttlebutt is to provide more, not less information. |
Sometimes, yes.
Problem is, even then, you get people questioning whether the reason was serious enough to miss an important game and then we get exactly these kind of arguments.
I was more than happy to leave it at "None of our business"
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Pebbles Rocks wrote: | “Realistic appraisal of the possible fallout”
You sound like bank manager at the royal commission.
How we grieve over the loss of someone we love is different for everyone. Also the support we feel we can give can be very different.
If our coaching staff were utterly insensitive then I would expect some fallout but I strongly suspect they get it and your speculation is not realistic at all. |
Fair enough. It seems likely to be true to me, but it wasn’t worth the aggro it elicited. Stui’s comment engaged with the idea effectively. My controversy meter might need adjusting. |
No, it doesn't.
Your initial post reflects what happens in the real world. If those that can't deal with reality and prefer to sit in a circle holding hands and singing kumbaya are offended by what you said then that is their problem, not yours. Just as well that you didn't mention the Spanish Influenza outbreak or you would have been blamed for that as well.
Murray has made a choice and he is entitled to do so. He has to live with the consequences though. A situation may arise where selection comes down to him and one other. The perception may be that he doesn't have the commitment to the cause that his rival does. The Alan Jeans line "Are you prepared to pay the price?" comes to mind, not just in football, but in many business environments. |
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Abdul The Bull
Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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What seems to be the issue is that fact that Murray made the calls to Bucks and told him he wasn't playing. I am sensing that folks are getting riled over the method and not the reason. This is why i think things could have been handled better. For Buckley to come out and say that Murray called and said he wasn't available instead of "Sam called me this week and advised that there had been a death in the family so Sam is taking a leave of absence" has caused the issue.
Could of been handled better, for mine.
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There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Abdul The Bull wrote: | What seems to be the issue is that fact that Murray made the calls to Bucks and told him he wasn't playing. I am sensing that folks are getting riled over the method and not the reason. This is why i think things could have been handled better. For Buckley to come out and say that Murray called and said he wasn't available instead of "Sam called me this week and advised that there had been a death in the family so Sam is taking a leave of absence" has caused the issue.
Could of been handled better, for mine. |
Agreed. Had that been said, this thread would not exist. It's hard to be critical of Buckley though. He constantly has a microphone poked under his nose and people with far more intelligence than him make mistakes in those circumstances. I really enjoyed his blunder on the Lynch saga though as when I heard it I thought that it would anger Lynch and if that is the reason that he selects Richmond as his club we have dodged a bullet and owe Buckley a thank you. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
The thing is, we don't know if it was a death in the family. That's just unconfirmed speculation. I've read it was an aunt and read it was a grandmother.
We don't know and don't need to.
If, for example, he was having some mental health issues, rang the coach and said I've had a panic attack, I need to speak to someone, I can't play this week, the coach isn't going to breach his privacy by giving us details unless Sam agreed.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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