Cricket's 3 best batsmen

[couragous cloke]

hmmmm... i think at the moment... Lara, Ponting or Hayden are the best players in the world... But if your saying who's the best player in the world i'd have to say Lara, then sachin.He's in a little form slump, doesnt mean that he wont be back, bigger and better.

And donny, i dont see your point on Sachin not being a team player. I would say he's very much a team player. As for Lara who u think isnt a team player.

If u actually listen to him, all he wants is team success. When asked about his 202 against South Africa he replied, Well it wasnt good enough bcoz we still lost easily. He wasnt happy with indervidual Success, he is a team player, 1 of the best examples of a team player at the moment too.

and your comment of Sach nurdling from 85-100?? please explain?!?!

[JLC]

One innings when Tendulkar was finding form he took a while to move from 85 to 100 and now Donny has painted him as if he bats like Boycott.

jlc

[Donny]

For JLC and Anthony.

I think you'll see by these journalist's names, they're both Indian.

This first one from Wisden cricket writer, Chandrahas Choudhury.

"That Tendulkar made a century was not unusual – it was his 36th in one-day internationals - but his innings was unusual as far as Tendulkar hundreds go. All too often he makes a rapid start when the field is up in the first fifteen overs, and proceeds inexorably to the landmark once the fielders retreat, eschewing risks and playing percentage cricket"

Please note the second "unusual" and "all too often", fellas.

The second is from an article in a series titled, "The Wisden Verdict" by Dileep Premachandran

"Tendulkar and Laxman might have made centuries, but the manner in which they failed to up the tempo brought to light one of Indian cricket's most worrying frailties – the obsession with individual landmarks"

Not 'one innings' JLC - "the obsession with individual landmarks" indicates it's been happening for a long time.

Anthony, old pal, I didn't say I thought Charlie Lara wasn't a team man.

[JLC]

Oh Donny you have stooped to new lows to try and tarnish the name of Tendulkar.....shame on you

Bevan bats slow for his whole innings and you call him the best one day player in the world

jlc

[Donny]

Sorry. Wrong again, mate. On both counts.

1. I didn't stoop anywhere. I specifically quoted Indian cricket writers in the hope you may actually read what they said.

2. I don't think Bevo is 'the best one day player in the world' for a start and Tendulkar only scores 1.25 more runs per 10 balls than Bevan and Sach has the big advantage of only 2 outfielders for a whole 15 overs. Bevan invariably has 4 or 5.

[JLC]

Open the other eye and you will see other players besides Australians.

jlc

[Sultan of spin]

This has been a very interesting disscussion and I think all of us have been surprised by same of the stats and arguments raised by others but I think we will have to agree to disagree on this issue because it is pretty obvious we are not going to reach a consensus.

[Donny]

SoS, there's no imperative to reach a consensus.

I just get frustrated when cricket followers just keep talking about 'the big 3' without considering players like Dravid, Ponting and Laxman who have better form over the last couple of years and more.

Yesterday's innings again showed us Tendulkar as a wonderful stylist but lacking in application - good old G & D. Surely it was the time to get his head down and play an innings. A great batsman would have.

The below article may give you an idea of what I mean.
--------------------------------------------

The men who do not fear Aussies

By Cameron Bell and Robert Craddock - Fox Sports

December 21, 2003

RAHUL DRAVID was once asked what motivated him as a cricketer, and his answer gave the ultimate insight into his mind-set as one of world's the finest batsmen.

"I want to bat as long as I can for the team," Dravid said.

It's a quality surely not lost on the Australians.

The Sunday Telegraph obtained statistics during the week that show Dravid averages more time at the crease against Australia than any other batsman in world cricket over the past 10 years.

Dravid's innings against Australia average 154 minutes - or two-and-a-half hours.

Australia must detest the sight of the 30-year-old from Bangalore striding to the wicket, for they know if he gets set, he will be on the field for almost as long as the umpires.

"Dravid has been a class player for a long time now and we know his ability better than anyone," injured Australian pace spearhead Glenn McGrath said.

"Averaging that long at the crease against us is a fair stat."

McGrath knows there is only one way to combat Dravid's remarkable impact: get him out early.

"I've seen him getting out nicking early on," McGrath said.

"He's the type of guy you need to bowl really well to when he first comes in, and build the pressure.

"You've just got to get them in the right area early because I think he's very susceptible to nicking early on.

"You can't give him any bad balls or anything to get off strike ... just pressure him early in the right spot.

"He's not like the other guys who love scoring off every ball, and there's no real weakness in his game either.

"He's mentally strong. You've just got to bowl well to him early on because he gets himself really set for a big innings once he's in."

While Dravid lifts to play Australia, the stats of his match-winning partner VVS Laxman make equally impressive reading.

Laxman's average against Australia of 62.17 is up almost 20 runs on his career average of 46.35.

Laxman has more runs against Australia than Sachin Tendulkar from two fewer Tests, and averages 133 minutes at the crease - the sixth-best time of any batsman over the past decade.

"Laxman is a real class player, especially when he plays Australia," McGrath said.

"I don't know why he doesn't do as well against the other countries ... maybe he doesn't prepare himself as well against other teams as he does against us."

McGrath found out the hard way during Laxman's match-winning, career-defining 281 in Calcutta two years ago that there is only one way to bowl to Laxman.

"You can't bowl anything at all on his stumps, even off-stump," McGrath said. "I just bowled outside off to him and left it about a foot-and-a-half and reasonably full to try to dot him up there.

"One thing you don't want the Indians doing is getting forward - that's why I feel bowling outside off, bowling dot balls, is very effective."

After Dravid's haul of 305 runs in the Adelaide Test, articles in India have engaged in a debate that Dravid is now more valuable than Tendulkar.

The Australians respect Dravid not only as a player, but as a quality person.

When he was walking off Adelaide after hitting the winning runs, Steve Waugh made a point of getting the match ball and, after shaking Dravid's hand, simply said: "Keep this."

Dravid, who made 233 and 72 not out in the match, put the ball in his pocket and plans to have it signed by Waugh and mounted.

"It was very nice of him to do it, I wasn't expecting it," Dravid said.

Waugh knows too well the efforts Dravid has made to improve himself.

On Australia's India tour of 1998, Dravid invited Waugh to dinner and the two spent several hours chatting about cricket, including technique and mental strength.

Many of cricket's greatest players are its greatest listeners - Waugh himself is an example - and Dravid knew there was much to learn.

"That night helped me in what I have done," Dravid said of the Waugh meeting. "We spoke about various topics, including technique and the mind. It was very good for me to get to know the mind of a very good player.

"He was someone I have always looked up to. It was nice of him to spend some time with me."

Dravid has always had an easy rapport with the Australian players and Shane Warne, knowing he was an avid reader, once gave him a copy of his autobiography.

In his home country, Dravid is nicknamed The Wall for a pristine defensive technique that is as attractive to watch as some other batsmen's attacking strokes. He watches the ball so closely it is as if he is trying to count its stitches in the air.

"I have always been able to concentrate quite hard, whether it be academics or cricket," said Dravid, who is a commerce graduate.

"It is a little bit of natural ability but you still have to work on it. I consciously try to get better at it. When you play a long innings, after a while it becomes like a habit."

As Australia can attest.

[JLC]

It wasnt so long ago that Laxman was dropped from the Indian Test team and he failed to make their World Cup Squad as well i am pretty sure. The NZ tour before the World Cup was his last chance to make it and he missed out. I very very much doubt whether Laxmkans form over the last 2 or 3 years is better than Tendulkars, Laras or Haydens.

At the start of the Indian tour Dravid was one of the batsman highlighted as having struggled away from home. Two test matches later and he is being hailed as one of the three best batsman in the world....lol

I think its a bit harsh on Tendulkar saying he lacks application considering he is one of the hardest training Indian players. They mentioned the other day he spent more time in the nets than anyone else and im sure his luck will turn around. Tendulkar is in a mini slump at the moment and its all the more evident because of the high standards that he has set in the past.

jlc

[Donny]

Mate, do you actually read posts before making comment ?

I wasn't hailing Laxman as one of the three best batsman in the world. Read my post.

Also, did you read this ?

"While Dravid lifts to play Australia, the stats of his match-winning partner VVS Laxman make equally impressive reading.

Laxman's average against Australia of 62.17 is up almost 20 runs on his career average of 46.35.

Laxman has more runs against Australia than Sachin Tendulkar from two fewer Tests, and averages 133 minutes at the crease - the sixth-best time of any batsman over the past decade"

As for Sach spending time in the nets. So what ? He had a chance to spend valuable time in the middle and tossed it away with a completely unnecessary and risky hook shot. That's what I'm referring to when I say application.

He's not out of luck, he's out of form. Part of being out of form is poor shot selection.

[Donny]

I split these three pages from the 'Hayden - Simply the best' topic.

All these posts are specifically referring to and sprang from the opening post by SoS in which he gave his opinion about who he thought are the best 3 batsmen in cricket today.

I notice they're all trotting it out again as the boxing day Test approaches. The little master will get a century.

[Donny]

These figures are for Anthony, JLC, SoS and others who keep naming Tendulkar ahead of Ponting and Dravid.


Ricky Ponting, who remained unbeaten on 125 in the current boxing day Test, scored his 20th century in 74 Tests. That's about one in every three and a half games. But since October 2002, Ponting has had an amazing run, scoring over 2000 runs in just 15 months, including ten centuries.

Even at a time when a number of batsmen are scoring prolifically, Ponting stands out with his consistency, and sheer volume of runs.

Batsmen since October 2002

Tests Innings Runs 100's Average

Ricky Ponting 19 27 2076 10 86.5

Matthew Hayden 19 30 1984 9 73.5

Rahul Dravid 10 18 990 3 70.71

Graeme Smith 17 26 1539 5 61.56

Michael Vaughan 17 32 1408 5 45.41

[Donny]

Ponting has just scored his third double century - in one year.

Would someone like to look up how many Sach has got in a whole career ?

[Donny]

Ponting's mastery

S Rajesh

Ricky Ponting's magnificent double-century was remarkable not just for the sheer number of runs he scored, but also for his complete mastery over the Indian bowlers.

Unlike his 242 at Adelaide, which came off a mere 352 balls, this innings was crafted over a longer period – 458 balls – but was an equally commanding performance.

What stood out was his impeccable footwork: not once in the entire innings was he caught on the crease. Ponting also adapted superbly to the slowish pitch: he was circumspect on the front foot, a wise move considering the fact that some deliveries stopped on the batsmen, but was devastating whenever he rocked back.

A strike-rate of 1.5 runs per over when playing forward, and 5.4 when playing back, tells the story. It wasn't as if the Indians offered him too many short balls either: there were just 12 of them, while another 43 pitched just short of good length. However, Ponting was good enough to convert many of the 342 good-length balls he received into short ones by his excellent footwork.

Ponting's flawless footwork

Balls Runs Strike rate (Runs per over)

Front foot --- 249 - 62 - 1.5
Back foot --- 196 - 177 - 5.4
Stepped out --- 13 - 18 - 8.3
Minimal footwork --- 0 - 0 - 0

[JLC]

I still think Tendulkar is the master but he is in a form slump.

You are comparing one player in Ponting at the peak of his form to Tendulkar who is in the worst slump of his career.......lol At the moment most batsman appaer to be better then Tendulkar.....lol

Last year Goodes won the Brownlow medal. Does that mean he is a better player than Voss ??

jlc