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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| Cannibal wrote: | There are many illnesses and negative health effects associated with heterosexuality, too, Birdy.
If you truly believe homosexuality is an illness and can be cured, then I trust you are aware that it is not a modern phenomenon but an "illness" as old as Man?
And I further trust you are aware that the Bible is not a literal truth? Some, perhaps many, of the stories in the Bible have much more ancient origins. They derive from earlier cultures than the Hebrews. |
So enlighten us with some evidence of these ancient origins....................................and like the bible says it is not an illness as such but, Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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Birdy 
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Sydney
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| Desmond Tutu wrote: | | homophobia is "every bit unjust" as apartheid |
The word "homophobia" has developed into several different meanings since it's invention and I believe it is inadequate to describe the different negative views regarding homosexuality. It is unclear whether it includes disaproval based on reasons such as fear, hate, health, religion, morals, or a combination of these.
| Desmond Tutu wrote: | | It is the same with sexual orientation. It is a given |
Homosexual behaviour cannot be compared to race, as Tutu has attempted to do. One is a genetically inherited trait, the other is a behaviour which is mainly caused by environmental and not biological factors. People are born to a particular race, but no one is born homosexual. Tutu obviously hasn't done his research as he says they are the same, that sexual orientation is a given.
As for the suggestion that the biblical passages on this issue are no longer relevant to 2004, I ask to what extent are we to pick and choose which of God's laws we should accept and those we should disregard? Perhaps we should just ignore all the teachings in the Bible that become inconvenient to certain minorities who will submit to their sinful tendencies and deny responsibility for their actions. |
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DaicsTonguePoke 
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Abbotsford, Melbourne
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| Birdy wrote: | Homosexual behaviour cannot be compared to race, as Tutu has attempted to do. One is a genetically inherited trait, the other is a behaviour which is mainly caused by environmental and not biological factors. People are born to a particular race, but no one is born homosexual. Tutu obviously hasn't done his research as he says they are the same, that sexual orientation is a given.
As for the suggestion that the biblical passages on this issue are no longer relevant to 2004, I ask to what extent are we to pick and choose which of God's laws we should accept and those we should disregard? Perhaps we should just ignore all the teachings in the Bible that become inconvenient to certain minorities who will submit to their sinful tendencies and deny responsibility for their actions. |
Oh dear. I feel very sorry for you, Birdy. How could you possibly know that Homosexuality is environmental. What does that mean? Are you suggesting that ones upbringing somehow determines ones sexuality? HA!
Before you rant on (again) about what you read somewhere, provide me with some evidence of this. If you are suggesting Sexuality is a choice, you are wrong! Did you 'decide' you wanted to date the opposite sex? or was it always there. I know i certainly didn't. I did choose however, to start living the life i was destined to, one which is full of happiness and love with my partner, instead of the denial and suicidal path i almost went down as a result of the lack of acceptance from people like yourself!
Also, what do you mean by "deny responsibility for their actions"? Are you suggesting that Gay people 'prey' on children or heterosexuals? Gay men are NOT Pedophiles! Note the difference, one is consentual, the other is NOT! |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| Tess wrote: | FFS Nuxta back then the bible also suggested we cut of our hand should it cause us to sin. Welcome to 2004 for crying out loud.
I notice you haven't touched Desmond tutu's writtings. |
Nice use of abreviation Tess how very christian of you as you once claimed to be. You try so hard to use a scripture to make a point but once again you fail to use it in context. That portion of scripture is not telling you to cut your hand of it is drawing a word picture explaining how extreme you need to be when dealing with sin in your life.
And as for Tutu`s writtings I wouldnt bother with as by the biblical definition he isnt a christian anyway just someone who is paid by a church body to perform a function. Anyone who is not obediant to the scriptures or contradicts anything God has said is not a christian.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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emdeem
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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Nuxta, sometimes it is enough to let somebody make their own decisions.
No matter how much you argue with another person about your faith/belief if they choose to believe or not believe that is the decision they have made between God and themselves.
The only sad truth is when once they knew the right way but have chosen the wrong path.
But, we must all remember it is never to late to fall on ones knees.
Also, because a man preaches peace does not make him a christian eg. Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela. |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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Tess, I dont have an oppinion or an argument, I only care what the bible says as it is my final authority, as it should be for anyone who calls themselves a christian. You can live your life however you like, it is entirely up to you. All I aim to do is stand for the scripture and the truth of God.
Endeem, I understand what you are saying and I agree with you, but when people use a forum such as this one to make pronouncements or claims that are false I will alwys sopeak up as this is what I have been called to do. If more christians stood up and fought back against sin we would have a much healthier and safer society.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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Eunos
Joined: 07 Feb 2004
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| nuxta, you are just about the most un-christian person I've ever read. |
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Hugor 
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Location: Perth
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Give them all Tasmania I reckon. That way all the environmental and genetic influences can be in one place, there will be no minorities and the gene pool can die out like the Tassie devil did.
They can have gay restaurants/train stations/clubs and public toilets and I can pick my wallet up safely in Sydney.
George Bush will sooner or later suspect one of them is a terrorist and bomb the lot. |
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London Dave 
Ješte jedna pivo prosím
Joined: 16 Dec 1998
Location: Iceland on Thames
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| Hugor wrote: | Give them all Tasmania I reckon. That way all the environmental and genetic influences can be in one place, there will be no minorities and the gene pool can die out like the Tassie devil did.
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Tassie Devils are still alive, perhaps you mean the thylacine, which is extinct. Then again, why let facts get in the way of a good rant?
| Hugor wrote: |
They can have gay restaurants/train stations/clubs and public toilets and I can pick my wallet up safely in Sydney. |
When these 'gay' restaurants etc get going, will they have one for folks with bigotted moronic opinions like you just displayed? As much as you seem to detest gays, I personally find people with 'opinions' like yours more distasteful. Do we get a shithead mass transit system?, so I don't have to put up with boorish twits spouting utter dribble like you, can I have dickhead restaurants?, so loud mouthed wankers with opinions like yours don't interrupt my meals, or homophobe public toilets?, where oafs who are petrified of being 'attacked' by gays actually are mistaken for one, and consequently have the shit beaten out of them by their own kind. A dose of your own medicine tastes so foreign, doesn't it? If you're that frightened of dropping your wallet in Sydney, carry it on a chain in your handbag, or shove it where your opinions desreve to be 'stored'.
| Hugor wrote: | | George Bush will sooner or later suspect one of them is a terrorist and bomb the lot. |
If that ever happens, let's hope folks like you get caught up in collateral damage. If you think George Bush is gonna protect you, your head is so far up your arse you'll not notice armageddon anyways. |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| Eunos wrote: | | nuxta, you are just about the most un-christian person I've ever read. |
Why? Because I dont choose to be silent in regards to the sin of homosexuality, because when someone says something contrary to the bible I point it out. Please show me all the un-christian writtings of mine that you have read so I can review them and perhaps recant.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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eddies bank balance
evolving-unlimited-intellect
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| London Dave wrote: | | Hugor wrote: | Give them all Tasmania I reckon. That way all the environmental and genetic influences can be in one place, there will be no minorities and the gene pool can die out like the Tassie devil did.
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Tassie Devils are still alive, perhaps you mean the thylacine, which is extinct. Then again, why let facts get in the way of a good rant?
| Hugor wrote: |
They can have gay restaurants/train stations/clubs and public toilets and I can pick my wallet up safely in Sydney. |
When these 'gay' restaurants etc get going, will they have one for folks with bigotted moronic opinions like you just displayed? As much as you seem to detest gays, I personally find people with 'opinions' like yours more distasteful. Do we get a shithead mass transit system?, so I don't have to put up with boorish twits spouting utter dribble like you, can I have dickhead restaurants?, so loud mouthed wankers with opinions like yours don't interrupt my meals, or homophobe public toilets?, where oafs who are petrified of being 'attacked' by gays actually are mistaken for one, and consequently have the shit beaten out of them by their own kind. A dose of your own medicine tastes so foreign, doesn't it? If you're that frightened of dropping your wallet in Sydney, carry it on a chain in your handbag, or shove it where your opinions desreve to be 'stored'.
| Hugor wrote: | | George Bush will sooner or later suspect one of them is a terrorist and bomb the lot. |
If that ever happens, let's hope folks like you get caught up in collateral damage. If you think George Bush is gonna protect you, your head is so far up your arse you'll not notice armageddon anyways. |
 LMFAOROTF......well said! |
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Birdy
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Sydney
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| DaicsTonguePoke wrote: | | Oh dear. I feel very sorry for you, Birdy. How could you possibly know that Homosexuality is environmental. What does that mean? Are you suggesting that ones upbringing somehow determines ones sexuality? HA! |
I'm suggesting ones upbringing is a contributing factor and I have never said it is purely environmental. In a previous post I said it is a result of complex interactions of psychological, social, and biological factors. This is the opinion held by most of the major institutions in psychology, developmental science, and even gay and lesbian rights.
We know this from studies conducted on identical twins who are separated at birth and raised in different environments. The more extensive studies show that where one twin is homosexual there is a less than 40% chance the other will be also. If it was entirely genetic then close to 100% of the twins would be homosexual.
| DaicsTonguePoke wrote: | | If you are suggesting Sexuality is a choice, you are wrong! |
I know it isn't a conscious choice. What is a choice is whether to accept it or try and change.
| DaicsTonguePoke wrote: | | Also, what do you mean by "deny responsibility for their actions"? Are you suggesting that Gay people 'prey' on children or heterosexuals? Gay men are NOT Pedophiles! Note the difference, one is consentual, the other is NOT! |
I mean blaming other things for our actions such as genes.
| Hugor wrote: | | Give them all Tasmania I reckon. That way all the environmental and genetic influences can be in one place, there will be no minorities and the gene pool can die out like the Tassie devil did. |
And wouldn't Tasmanians just love that! 
I'm sure you are thinking of the Tasmanian tiger, although the devil won't be far from extinction if a cure for the terrible disease currently plaguing them can't be found. |
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Eunos
Joined: 07 Feb 2004
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| nuxta wrote: | | Eunos wrote: | | nuxta, you are just about the most un-christian person I've ever read. |
Why? Because I dont choose to be silent in regards to the sin of homosexuality, because when someone says something contrary to the bible I point it out. Please show me all the un-christian writtings of mine that you have read so I can review them and perhaps recant. |
Why would I bother to trawl through your rants? Each and every one would surely just be a reflection of the brainwashing that you obviously have suffered since birth.
The very fact that you cannot see how your homophobia is un-christian condemns you.
Society has moved on from a 2,000 year old document that was written at a time when the majority of the population was illiterate. This document has been used ever since to keep the masses in line. It no longer works as the population is educated now.
I'm surprised that you have not joined your brothers in arms in America, the Amish. They at least have the decency to ignore the modern world. Or isn't your belief strong enough to deny you the comforts of the 21st century? |
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Dr Alf Andrews 
Fitzroy Victoria Bowling Club
Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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| nuxta wrote: | | ... I only care what the bible says as it is my final authority, as it should be for anyone who calls themselves a christian. |
I wasn't going to converse with you any more but this statement really can't be allowed to go unchallenged.
The Bible, as a whole, is not a Christian text.
It's mostly a lot of Judeistic claptrap.
The Old Testament should have been burned 2,000 years ago.
Apart from a few "nice" bits of poetry here and there, it is mostly a lot of legalistic mumbo jumbo in support of the hate-filled religion of the Jews.
The first 4 books of the New Testament have some merit as Christian texts. If you look beyond the arcane fairy tales of the virgin birth and the resurrection, you'll find the essence of what Jesus ... the man ... taught. Some truly beautiful homilies about forgiveness and love for one's fellow human being.
Then you get into some political propaganda, "The Acts of the Apostles", a pseudo history of the early church.
Then comes the worst obscenity of all ... the letters of Paul.
Letter after letter by Paul ... the Johnny-come-lately of the church leaders.
Unlike the fair dinkum apostles, Paul never met Jesus ... He had an hallucination. He was a pretty nasty bit of work, the old Paul (or Saul as he was originally known).
He used to get his jollies persecuting Christians, until he became one himself ... or at least claimed to be.
But he was never a Christian's arsehole.
Paul was a Jew ...
And he hated Christianity.
So much so that he pretended to be a Christian so that he could undermine the Christian faith.
That's why the letters of Paul are a continual re-assertion of the Judeistic claptrap that Jesus did away with.
You'll never find Jesus condemning the homosexual ... Only that dirty scumbag, Paul ...
You'll also find that it was Paul who said that women should shut up in church ... the scriptural basis for an all-male clergy.
That ain't Christianity ... That's pauline Judeism at its ugliest.
Misogyny ... homophobia ... all other forms of bigotry ...
... don't blame the Christians ...
Blame the Jews ... and their slimebag "christian" ring-in, Paul the so-called "Apostle".
Read the Bible if you need to know how many cubits your tabernacle should be ... and how much pig's blood to sprinkle on your altar.
But if you don't need to know all that ... then just keep the four gospels, and rip the rest out and burn it ... because most of the Bible is worse than useless.
That's why so many so-called "Christians" appear to be so un-Christian to non-Christians ... and why so many non-Christians consider themselves so much more Christian than "Christians".
It's because a fundamentalist Christian is really nothing more than a Jew. Continually citing their Jewish texts to justify their Jewish bigotry.
Jesus was much more scathing toward the money-lenders than he was towards people of unconventional sexual orientation.
And you can bet the Jews would have HATED that.
In the Middle Ages, the Church rightly condemned money-lending as a sin.
These days ... in fundamentalist born-again Jewish America, money-lending is regarded as the highest of all virtues ...
And you can thank Paul for that.
In the Middle Ages only scholars read the Bible ... These days any two-bit amateur theologian can read the damn thing ...
... with disasterous consequences. |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| Eunos wrote: | | Why would I bother to trawl through your rants? |
Of course Eunos dont dare supply any basis for you false statement
| Eunos wrote: | | Each and every one would surely just be a reflection of the brainwashing that you obviously have suffered since birth. |
Born 1967 Born Again 1992
| Eunos wrote: | | The very fact that you cannot see how your homophobia is un-christian condemns you. |
ho·mo·pho·bia: Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
Behavior based on such a feeling.
I am neither frighten of or contemptuos toward any homosexual anywhere on the planet. Show me anywhere in the bible where homosexual behaviour is not a sin and I wont speak against it, just the same as I would against any other sin.
| Eunos wrote: | | Society has moved on from a 2,000 year old document that was written at a time when the majority of the population was illiterate. This document has been used ever since to keep the masses in line. It no longer works as the population is educated now. |
Yes society has definately moved on, with abortion at its highest rate ever, youth suicide sky rocketing, sexual assault, violent crime and theft all on the up, and all since this 2000 year old document was turned away from by the so called educated masses. Well thank......um...."whoever" (since without the bible there is no God) that we have our education to save us.
| Eunos wrote: | | I'm surprised that you have not joined your brothers in arms in America, the Amish. They at least have the decency to ignore the modern world. Or isn't your belief strong enough to deny you the comforts of the 21st century? |
Where in the scripture does it tell me to not live in the 21st century, you have now idea how I live my life and what comforts I do and dont have. What does my belief have to do with how I live as long as I am true to my creed.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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