Howard and the Lie Detector.

[Joel]

[David]

[David]

[Blanch]

[David]

[commonwombat]

Dave, you obviously are a very trusting guy or very gullible.

To make such a statement as

"the war in Iraq was one further step in the war on terrorism, which, if won, WILL make the world a safer place."

makes me laugh.

I might be gravely mistaken, but I thought that one of the better ways of combating terrorism is to deprive them of oxygen ie ammunition and grounds to propogate their cause.

The war in Iraq has been promted on any number of shifting grounds be they WMD, oil, regime change, unfinished business from 1991 but combating terrorism is certainly the least credible. There has not been any tangible evidence that Saddam was a major sponsor of terrorism, and was regarded by the likes of Bin Laden and the fundamentalists as an apostate.

The evidence is clearly on the table that Iraq is currently, an quite probably for the forseeable future, a prime battleground for Islamic terrorists and a breeding/recruiting ground.

Frankly, with Iraq taking centre stage, the eye has been taken off the ball in the combating of terrorism.

You have criticised France and Germany for opposing the US over Iraq. Certainly, self interest did play a part in their decisions but you fail to remeber that continental Europe has had to deal with terrorist activity as a fact of life for decades whereas 9/11 was the first time that it was brought home to mainland USA.

The world as a whole was shocked qand disgusted by the events of Sep 11, 2001 and was supportive of any activities to bring the perpetrators and sponsors to justice. Much of the world would be happy to see Al Qaida and its offshoots eradicated.

The fact is that the Iraq incursion cannot be linked to the war on terrorism and much of the world does not and cannot accept the rationale for doing so.

Meantime, Al Qaida still exists and funds/faciltates Islamic teror around the globe; the deposed Taliban still holds sway over much of sthn Afghanistan; the puppet regime in Kabul exists only on the sufferance of the warlords; bin Laden remains at large .............. need I continue.

Semms rather the case that the ball has been dropped, and rather than combating terrorism, they have given it oxygen to breathe.

[piedys]

[Cannibal]

So, it's OK for right-wingers to approve of anything Andrew Bolt says in one of his articles but not OK for anyone else to approve of Robert Manne's?

[rand corp]

PM told overboard claims false: inquiry

A parliamentary inquiry has backed claims from a former defence adviser that he told Prime Minister John Howard claims that children were thrown from an asylum seeker boat were false.

The Senate set up an inquiry in August into new revelations by Mike Scrafton, a former senior adviser to former defence minister Peter Reith, that contradicted the government's children overboard claims.

Mr Scrafton said he had told the Prime Minister in November 2001 that a videotape was "at best inconclusive" as to whether there were any children in the water.

He said he had also told Mr Howard he did not support the proposition that the event had occurred, that photographs released in early October 2001 were definitely of the sinking of the refugee boat and not of any children being thrown into the water and that no-one in defence believed that any children were thrown overboard.

The inquiry report, tabled in parliament, said Mr Scrafton's evidence had shed new light on the children overboard affair.
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"His evidence also corroborates the (children overboard inquiry) report's findings that the prime minister's office was alerted to the misrepresentation of the photographs before the Prime Minister's Press Club appearance on 8 November (in which had made the children overboard claim)," the report said.

The report said Mr Scrafton's evidence also suggested that Mr Reith, his chief of staff and his media adviser all knew that the photographs were being misrepresented, but decided not to correct the public record.

The inquiry was from a Labor and Democrats dominated Senate committee and included a minority report by coalition senators dismissing the claims.

The asylum seeker issue is considered to be one of the key factors in the government's re-election in 2001.

[eddies bank balance]

I didn't need an inquiry to know "Mr Potatoe Head/john coward" was mis-leading the public to buy votes! evil i tell ya,EVIL!

[David]

Hasn't this issue been done to death??? What we know and have known for three years is that Howard either honestly believed it or else knew that his claims were dubious (we will probably never really know) when he stated that there were children overboard..... and we know now that there MAY NOT have been any children overboard. Woohoo. All of which has absolutely nothing to do with whether he would have won in 2001 or not. End of story.

[rand corp]

Done to death!

Having a government that not only will, but safely can, directly mislead the Australian public to serve its own interests is an issue that can never be 'done to death' and simply moved on from because its old news.

I fear you seriously underplay the gravity of this issue and the far reaching consequences it has on our democratic process and for human rights in this country.

That these people, people voted to positions of the highest level of trust and authority in this country, saw fit to use innocent children in a great lie to the people, in order to help them retain power. That they used these children because they were poor and they were foreign and they were not on Australian soil, so technically not our responsibility, is a disgusting disgraceful, shameful act.

To think that a majority of Australians might beleive that truth doesn't matter. That what is right isn't always the best way, that it was okay because the parents of these innocent children were trying to enter our great and prosperous nation illegaly. It was okay because, Howard and his mob have done a good job with the economy and at keeping the trash out. This, to me, is everything that is immature and dysfunctional and wrong with our country and political system.

To suggest that we don't need to search for the truth because its old news is an anathema.

I will remain a refugee from my country whilst the politics of autophobia, kainophobia, sophophobia and xenophobia prevail and I fear that will be for a very long time indeed. Don't get me wrong, where I live is no better, in fact much worse, it is simply that I am not required to claim it as part of my own.

[David]

lol i didn't know there were so many phobias rand...

As far as I can see, the issue was that these people should not be allowed into Australia because they were inhuman enough to throw their children in the water, after a few of these groups do threaten to throw their kids overboard. The government then produces a photo to 'prove' that children have actually already been thrown in the water. This photo is later proved to be dubious or fake. Meanwhile, we are still left in the dark as to whether there were any children overboard. These "asylum seekers" later show how desperate they are to be allowed into Australia by doing psychopath stuff like sewing their (and their kids) lips together. I still fail to see though how this had anytthing to do with the 2001 election victory:
John Howard won because:
a: stability was needed with the threat of terrorism
b: the liberals had done pretty well in their 5 years in office
c: Kim beazley was a rather weak alternative
All of those would have had more bearing then asylum seekers (I can understand trying to flee a country like Iraq or Sudan, but why go to asutralia on the other side of the world when all your trying to do is just escape your own country)

oh and by the way I don't believe that howard knowingly lied in this instance.

[Dr Alf Andrews]

"Done to death ... ?"

Yeah ... I agree.

AUSTRALIA has been DONE TO DEATH.

I am SO OVER this country.

[Dr Alf Andrews]