Rohan

[Mike]

Rohan, sometimes I agree with what you say, sometimes I don't, but I find that I always take your contributions with a grain of salt.

I don't always do that consciously, but I do know why I do it. The continuing reminder of the importance that you place on your family connection to the Club and the implication that that gives your views added weight, whether it is otherwise merited or not, are enough to make me cynical of almost anything you might say.

Even when you don't mention your family connection in the post, it is always there to see at the top - Rohan Coventry Tateson. I said to you once before that you have every right to be proud of your family name and the contribution that some members of your family have made to the Club. I still believe that, but I don't believe that your family connection makes your point of view any more valid than mine. I have family names as well, I could call myself Michael Lewis Hinton Agar Wilson, because I'm very proud of all those family names and there is a significant achievement in each of them, but I don't, because I'd rather be known for my own achievements and not for those of people who I never personally knew and whose genes are so diluted in me that they are not significant.

Collingwood - the working class Club, has been beautifully and appropriately described by Alf as 'The People's Republic of Collingwood'. The reason that that label is so apt is that our supporter base, historically made up of battlers who have seen the Club controlled and dominated by vested family interests, has revolted against those families and their proprietorial beliefs and installed their own president, Eddie - the people's president. Looking at the Club in that light, can you see that your constant reminding of your personal heritage is counter-productive?

Rohan, be yourself. Your views are reasoned and controversial, let them stand on their own. If you take the family connection out of it people are forced to address the argument directly, rather than relying on the furphy of your family to discredit you.

Footnote: Rohan has just emailed me to say that he has had email directed to him from a user of this BB attacking both his family and his football club (the one he plays for). This board carries many diverse views - if you don't like what someone says, tell them on here, please do not attack them directly and/or personally.

I have never banned a Collingwood supporter from this Bulletin Board, but personal attacks on members will result in banning, regardless of who you support.

[mandy]

I agree with you Mike. I haven't really posted for very long here, but I've read it for a long time.

As soon as I see Rohan's name, I go straight in to see what he has to say. Very occassionally I even agree with him. But I think it's his insistant need to mention his family that incite the people here.

Why does he have to that? And why does he have to think that makes him better and what he has to say any more ligitimate than the rest of us?

[ck_nd]

Well said Mike.

Go Pies!

Carol

[junkboy75]

I agree with mike in that it's important to be who you are and be as honest as possible in your opinions. the internet allows people to assume identities that are quite unlike their real selves. it sometimes also allow cowards to abuse and harrass people from behind a PC. still others like to show their "credentials" or "pedigree" and flaunt them, in the hope that it lends credence to their opinions. insider information is powerful stuff, but how this insider information is used is even more important. if it is used to inflate one's ego and achieve some sort of self aggrandisement, then I say that these people are deluding themselves. a lot of factors and issues come into account as to why you can't lay everything on the table, how some things are best kept quiet. I think people should not use their “predigree” or access to insider information for their own purposes.

but by being yourself, I think it is a stereotype to say that all c'wood supporters should be cast from the same mould. the origins of the club is certainly steeped in the working class, however pie supporters come from diverse backgrounds nowadays, from prime ministers, to business people, to migrants, to blue collar workers, to white collar workers. c'wood is also the most parochial and tradition bound club in australia. that's why we revere the coventrys, the roses, the richards.

if we be ourselves, then people must realise and accept the diversity of opinions that may exist, however distasteful some of these opinions may be. I sometimes find it disheartening to hear people on this forum denigrating social club members or other c’wood fans. or people calling other people "richmond supporters" just because they come up with an opinion that the majority do not agree with. not all social club members think they are better than other fans; those who do are again deluding themselves. often, they are just people being themselves, they won't and shouldn't change just because they don't fit into the image of the "typical" collingwood supporter. our great president, eddie mcguire, lives in Toorak and wears a $2000 Gianni Versace suit with matching V2 Versace striped tie. it makes no sense to roundly cheer him, then turn around and denigrate social club members, or any one else who goes to the footy in a suit, or anyone who is seemingly not cheering madly.

we are ALL collingwood.


"everyone's a winner hot pies"

[This message has been edited by junkboy75 (edited 24 July 2001).]

[Mike]

Wonderful post Junkboy, you said what I was trying to say.

I allowed my leftist leanings to creep in. I wasn't casting aspersions on the Coventry name, which is a hallowed name in this club and throughout the AFL, but the name in that context belongs to the men who made it famous - the Club no longer operates on a system of inherited peerage.

I would never suggest that anyone has more or less right to be part of the Magpie army because of their circumstances or background In fact Joffa would argue that I come from a privileged background (Canterbury toff) so I probably have a vested interest in not believing that Collingwood is the realm of the working class.

We're a very cosmopolitan mix these days and there's no place for any form of class distinction whether it be based on heritage or circumstance.

The member / non-member issue also touches a raw nerve with me. I have a perpetually guilty conscience because neither Nick nor I are members this year. It was a case of whether the money was better spent on membership or on this site, and the site won. I still consider myself part of the clan - even without the membership.

[junkboy75]

I have learnt many things while growing up as a migrant in melbourne. an important lesson I learnt is that being insular and withdrawn into one’s community is not a good option. another is to accept and try to understand the diversity of people living in our community, and their opinions. this transcends to the football club that you follow; as you say, c’wood supporters are very cosmopolitan these days. this doesn’t mean that everyone has to love everyone. we don’t live in nirvana and reality dictates that life is not one big love-in. it just means that we are all diverse. I am also not what you would consider an atypical c’wood fan, even though I am not from a privileged background and my family’s definitely not rich. However, I enjoy going to the theatre and opera and I write restaurant reviews as a hobby that I hope to publish one day, because that is what I like to do. but, I follow c’wood with a absolute passion as well and I get upset when people denigrate fans like myself for not being characteristic of a certain stereotype.

It doesn’t matter if someone has purchased the most expensive membership, or cheered the loudest, or sat on the boundary line week in week out in the rain, or sat in a corporate box. this doesn't make them more or less of a supporter. I must admit, I used to think less of someone if they haven’t purchased a footy membership, but I have learnt that c’wood is much more than these simple, tangible acts. I have learnt that we all support the club in our own way, be it financial, something like this forum, or other ways. collingwood exists in our hearts.


"everyone's a winner hot pies"

[This message has been edited by junkboy75 (edited 24 July 2001).]

[JLC]

I did tell someone on here what i thought yet i was told i should have told them directly ?? Now im confused. I think the best policy is not to say anything at all. I have learnt that the hard way i guess.

APA

EVERYONE IS A COLLINGWOOD SUPPORTER ITS JUST THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL

[junkboy75]

I support freedom of speech as long as it's not personal attacks on people, racist or derogatory comments. sometimes, saying nothing is worse than saying something. but there are ways to respond to people without resorting to the above.

"everyone's a winner hot pies"

[Mike]

JLC, I beg to differ.

You didn't tell someone what you thought of them, you dropped snide 3rd person comments. What I said then ("Personal attacks or feuds, for whatever reason, right or wrong won't be tolerated on this board. This is not the place for it.") was not inconsisitent with what I said above ("please do not attack them directly and/or personally").

Personal attacks are not tolerated full stop.

I'm not claiming to be consistant in my moderation of this board. I try to be, but I have my days, as we all do, and I'm bound to get things wrong occasionally. I don't like the job, but I do it because without it the BB would die.

[Hiya-and-Higher]

Let me lend my support to the views expressed by Mike and Junkboy75.

Tolerance and courtesy are the strength of any FORMIDABLE group. We here have a common passion. We have the choice in what type of world we want to play in. It's not what we call ourselves that makes us special...it's how we behave towards others...and how honorably we deal with adversity.

[JLC]

I have learnt my lesson and i believe personal attacks are uncalled for especially when swearing is involved. If i receive any personal attacks i will let you know.

APA

EVERYONE IS A COLLINGWOOD SUPPORTER ITS JUST THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL

[maggierose]

Hello out there...

This is my first time here, in fact it's my first time on a bulletin board anywhere!!! I wasn't going to do this but after having read the post on here this afternoon I thought I'd join up and put in my two cents worth!

As a Collingwood supporter for many many years and yes, also whilst living in England for 14 years, I've come across a lot of people who think of us as some sort of subhuman uneducated rabble...they should all read this board I think.

All I want to say is that I'm so proud to belong to a group of people who are fair (for the most part) open minded and egalitarian...thank you so much..it's made me even prouder to belong to the best football club in the world!

[Fab4 24-10-26-16]

Mike and Junkboy probably two of the best posts I've read so far!
Mike and Nick how can you feel guilty or any shame at not having a membership, with the amount of work you must do here? Do you ever sleep?
What you do in keeping this board going is worth more to the club than a bucket load of Legend memberships. It keeps the profile of the club alive and ensures the fans have somewhere to turn to. I turely think the club should help out in anyway possible.

The wait is almost over.

[This message has been edited by Fab4 24-10-26-16 (edited 24 July 2001).]

[London Dave]

Excellent posts Junkboy and Mike. I have tended to agree somewhat with Rohans posts, although I understand the antipathy he generates from some people with his family and football club references.
Nice that we can still remember that everyone is equal at Collingwood.

Well, must rush, off to the Gentlemen v players match at Lords. Rah Rah, come on the Gentlemen!

[Mike]

Welcome aboard the board Maggierose.

Of course you're proud to be a part of it, it's Collingwood (but I do know what you mean)

Don't be too concerned about Pies fans being labelled as uneducated rabble, it's all part of the gamesmanship, We love to think of Richmond fans in the same way and Roos supporters (what there are of them) as homeless drifters. All generalisations and harmless until you inadvertantly say it to someone who actually fits the description.

Thanks Fab4, but I've always had that inbuilt belief that all true supporters are members and I'm not handling my lack, and Nick's enforced lack, of membership very well. I suppose it's retribution for my past intolerance.