Judkins

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

Our football club has still got a lot of work to do if it wants to be successful again. It absolutely amazes me the stupidity of supporters and administration for thinking that because of our youth, we will be successful.

At the same time, It is very hard to see a future with certain players that are still at the club, and even worse, these players are occupying key positions in our team.

Our back line is a disgrace. We will go no where as a side with Prestigicamo, Licuira, Richardson and Dimitina in the same back line. Prestigicamo should be traded or delisted, he has been at the club for a number of years and has not developed. Richardson is also at the crossroads. He is slow, gets lost when the ball goes over his head and is not strong enough for a player of his size.

Licuira is also another who should be looked at. Sure he gets his hands to the ball, but his foot disposal is not adequate for a league footballer. You can’t have someone who rarely finds his targets playing in the back line. Sure he had a good start to the year but he is being found out now and he is definite trade bait.

The problem is that our recruiting has been that bad that these players are continually played because there is little competition for their spots. We have to target a good, skillful and tough defender over the summer. If Solomon is available we have to dangle a huge carrot to entice him because we will go no were as a side with the backline we have at the moment.

This weakness in our backline has highlighted our average recruiting since Judkins came on board. Sure Judkins recruited Fraser, Tarrant, Nick Davis and Didak but when you have had the picks Collingwood have had in the last three years, you don’t have to be the worlds greatest recruiter to get those players.

If you look at the recruiting of Judkins carefully and without bias, it has been pretty average. His positives include players such as Fraser, Davis, Lonie, Tarrant, Clement, Holland, Molloy, Lockyer (is trade bait to West Coast) and O’Bree. However if look at his players such as Roach, Lane, Orchard, Kinnear, McKee, Stone, Ukovic, Baynes, Oalrenshaw and Betheras, you can see that the negatives outweigh the positives.

My major criticism of Judkins is that the players we have given away for draft picks or players have been very weak. Sav Rocca was let go for nothing, our number three pick in 99 was given away for McKee and Roach, Schauble was traded for Mark Kinnear and a first round draft pick (Ramanauskas) was traded for a Oalernshaw. Sure he got good value for Williams and Michael, but once again the negatives outweigh the positives.



May the St Kevin's Old Boys Prevail.

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

Dan,
Maybe we have to united, but does mean we accept unacceptable performances by our side. What the club needs is accountability.
If we accept performances like that are club is headed in the wrong direction.
It's well and good to say we are young but we have been using this excuse since 99. It's going to take time. However if you ask the average Collingwood fan, their patience is wearing thin.
Maybe McGuire and Co should stop worrying about suing photographers and setting up horse ventures and concentrate on our core product, football, because it's still got a work left judging on today's game.


May the St Kevin's Old Boys Prevail.

[ck_nd]

Rohan,

Eddie suing photographers has nothing to do with Collingwood football club. (At least make your arguement relevant - for those who haven't read the Herald Sun (sat) a photographer has breached copyright of some photos of Ed's wedding. Nothing to do with Collingwood Footbal Club.)

As for race horse ventures, that will bring the club money so we don't end up like the Canberra Kangaroos - a team with a heap of success in the last decade but not a penny and no one loves them anyways....

Go Pies!

Carol

[cobood]

Well said Carol...... my sentiments exactly.

BE LOUD.....BE PROUD

[AlfAndrews]

So, RCT.

Are you offering your services to The Club as a recruiter. I reckon it would be a pretty tough gig. And I reckon it would be about normal to get it wrong some of the time. The draft is a bloody lottery, for Jock's sake. It's like trying to pick the Melbourne Cup winner in July when the weights have just come out.

Sheeeesh !!!

And who said Lockyer is trade bait?
Trade bait be damned.
Lockyer is a Collingwood player and must remain so.



**floreat pica**

[Hiya-and-Higher]

We have a great bunch of players.
When you lose a game you always look bad.
We've been 'spoilt' by lots of wins and lots of 'close' losses.
Every other team builds itself up to play us.
It *is* exhausting, and it's bound to go pear shaped for us occasionally.
*Every* other team has lost games this year and some of the top teams have lost badly too.
*Every* one of our guys has proved they can play.
I like them all and I trust their commitment and passion.
I did think that for a bit that this year was going to be a Hollywood script...a rags to riches story...but I guess we're not writing the script...so its batten down the hatches for the long haul.
We might just make it to the finals this year...and if not...well I think we are pretty certain to do it next year.
I'm confident we are not standing still.
The Power were half a game ahead of us last year in 14th pozzie...they're looking pretty fair this year...and they are about 3 years ahead of us in overall experience.
We might surprise yet.
Hard fought success is the sweetest!

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

Alf,
I wasn't putting my hand up. It may be a tough gig, but Judkins is on a salary in the 80,000 k plus figure. It's his job to pick the right talent and minimize the mistakes.

He was poached from Essendon because he had the reputation of the AFL's top recruiter and at the moment this reputation outweighs his current performance.

Maybe the draft is a lottery, but since it has been in place, Collingwood has been one of the worst performed sides.

The thing that riles me is that over the journey, he has gone with the philosophy of picking the best player regardless of position. This has lead to an abundance of medium to short players and a lack of key position spine players. This was highlighted today in that our defense was about as solid as England's top order.

It's good that the club is looking after their finances but at the same time, there has to be more urgency regarding on-field matters.

Carol mentioned that the Kangaroos have had success while being broke. Well after watching today's game I can tell you which one I would prefer to have.

McGuire should realize that if you have a successful Collingwood side that there would be a flow on effect. Crowds will come (already have), sponsors will come and thus the finances will improve.

Now is not the time to diversify our operations. The club is at a critical point in its history and thus the priority has to be football.

Our supporters haven't seen finals action for 7 years, and our two fiercest rivals have been very successful in this period. It is imperative that we reach a level of sustained success and this requires an improvement in our list.

It riles me that clubs such as the Kangaroos and the Bulldogs have had success over the last five years, yet they don't have the finances of Collingwood.

The main thing I am trying to convey is that the club has to be more accountable. It's well and good to use youth as an excuse, but this is going to wear thin. I am sick to death of administrators offering excuses, I have been hearing these since 99.

A lot has been said of St Kilda's culture in the past week and begs the question of our culture. I have got a pretty good understanding of this through my families involvement with the club and have come to the conclusion that we are a passionate club. However over the last 10 years a culture of accepting mediocrity has also engulfed the football club. You take a look at the hard-nosed professionalism of Essendon and Carlton and don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out why they are successful.



May the St Kevin's Old Boys Prevail.

[DaicosForever]

I think Judkins has also recruited a player by the name of Benny Johnson at around the 50 pick mark and also snared a kid by the name of Lonie at around the 37 pick mark in his short tenure as recruiting honcho. Picking bonafide AFL players outside the top 25 picks is not dictated by a set formula and certainly your chance for success is minimized.

Certainly I agree however this is where recruiters garnish their reputations but the size of the task and the element of luck required goes beyond anyone persons skill level.

I think occasionally it will help to look at how successfully other clubs have recruited and use this as an indicator.
Other then Essendon largely put together by judkins no other real club has excelled without the aid of excess draft concessions...ie Brisbane/SYdney/Power/ and Freo's list carries immense talent.

Lets support the pies

Louis

[This message has been edited by DaicosForever (edited 22 July 2001).]

[magpie joffa]

Your a tpyical private school cry baby moron rohan, i bet your up with the social club members every week, and because your able to afford a few extra bucks for your social club medallion you seem to think you have the right to rip the guts out of all players, presidents,coaches and fellow supporters.

Get real mate that was the biggest load of negative shit i have ever read in my life and i hope your feeling quite silly at the minute.


COLLINGWOOD..simply the best...BETTER THAN ALL THE REST!!we will never forget our great number #42...GO YOU BLOODY PIES yeaaah LETS KICK ASS.lets kill the bloody bastards !!
http://www.mp3.com/joffa

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

lol!
Lockyer trade bait to West Coast?
Are you insane? He is one of our most consistent players, and trading him would be crazy.

"Good 'Ol Collingwood Forever"

[mandy]

I'd be very interested to know where RCT sits at the games. Must have been near me and Jamjar again. For the second week in a row I've been in arguments with Collingwood "supporters" who have just sat and bagged us all day. Where are these people coming from? Yesterday I resorted to marking the names off the footy record for every player this dickhead bagged. End of the day result left Leon Davis, Nick Davis and Josh the only players worthy of this fool. Then he had the gall to question our credentials as supporters, but after the argument he left at 3/4 time and didn't come back. (I'm seriously considering taking a digital camera to games and setting up a website to out these pathetic little people!)

I realise it can be frustrating at times, but the team needs our support. EVERY player deserves our support. I'm sick of hearing the team be put down and names thrown out as possible trades. We have a great young club that is only going to get better. Give them a chance to do it.

[JLC]

Its funny when we were playing well i didnt hear any of these criticisms of Noel Judkins ??

Lockyer trade bait to WCE ?? Surely Rohan you cannot be serious. Lockyer is one of our best players at the club.

Judkins is one of the most respected recruiters in the league. Can you even name another "recruiter" from another club ?? The fact is that Judkins has proven himself over the years to be an astute judge of an AFL player.

Our backline has performed well for most of the year. Not many teams have kept Matthew Lloyd to one goal this year. I believe our problem lies in the midfield. We need to start winning more centre clearances. It appears to me that Obree is the only one in the midfield. I think its time Rupert came back and was left in the midfield. Rupert needs to be left in the midfield for a whole game.

I agree with Dimattina going back to the seconds. In our best team only Steinfort or Dimattina can be in the team. I believe Steinfort is a better player.



EVERYONE IS A COLLINGWOOD SUPPORTER ITS JUST THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL

[Big poppa pump]

Ok lets not all get defensive here.
Rohann has brought up some good points.
To get a top player these days u MUST give a good player away something we have been guilty of in the last decade.
Think about it we held on to guys like Francis , Russell ,Rocca, Williams even to a lesser extent Crossisca and Wright for way to long and got hardly anything in return and considering our performances in the last decade you can see that we were wrong.
Lockyer is a class player but i would prefer a quality CHB or ruckman where we are obviously struggling.
Judkins has struggled , sure he picked guys like taz and josh but that's hardly an achievment considering josh was the number 1 pick and taz was pick 8 and ahead of him was guys like ottens and croad so we were never going to lose out.
N.davis was picked under the father son rule so he had really no input in that considering everyone knew how good he was but look at his misses Tuckey , Roach , Olarenshaw , orchard and licuria 4 FIRST round picks which can make a club.
We have to get tough on selecting players loyality has gone out the window it's a total business now and we have to make the tough decisions to get anywhere

[Seth]

Hey Rohan why don't you go and support Richmond mate. They are the best at turning against thier own when things go wrong. Unbelievable.

'Go trig boy, it's your birthday'.

[Fradam]

I'll tell you Rohan why the backline isn't going well at the moment, it's coz the ball is coming down there too much with no pressure on the ball carrier. We're all very quick to judge when someone has a bad game. I'd never trade Presti, he rarely gets beaten and tries his hardest every week. He was injured yesterday. Richo had a shocker but he also had a bad matchup yesterday. Richo has been a good player for a few years now and can play back or forward, he's a great assett. Licuria is having a great season so your crazy to say we should get rid of him and finally Dimmatina doesn't play in the backline, he plays in the midfield. Lay off our backline, it's the guys upfield that have to lift and help them out.

Fradam Wrote This