Judkins

[Lockyer24]

And I agree totally with what Joffa said regarding you and your links to past players/board members.
If you are linked with the past board, thanks a lot for a decade of hell asshole! Our recruiting since Judkins sure beats the past recruiting by a mile. The past board was so crap they gave up the chance to have Lockett..nuff said

[KRISTEN!!!]

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING?? TRADE LOCKYER?? WHAT DRUGS ARE YOU ON MATE?? TARKS HAS BEEN ONE OF OUR BEST RECRUITS IN AGES.
JOFFA THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A SOCIAL CLUB MEMBER EITHER BUT I DONT SIT WITH THEM I JUST PAY FOR THE MEMBERSHIP AND HOPE THAT WHEN WE MAKE THE FINALS I WILL BE ABLE TO GET TICKETS!!
ANYWAY WE SHOULD BE STICKING TOGETHER NOT PICKING ON EVERYBODY!

*GO PIEBOYS*
TARKS FOREVA

[Mike]

Here we go - ever the peace maker.

Let's cool it a bit. Regardless of our backgrounds, regardless of present situation, regardless of our views, we're all Collingwood - family.

This board would be very boring without its diverse group of people, it would just be a mutual back-slapping group so thank God for all of you. I'm not asking you all to agree, that would be incredibly boring and highly unlikely, but I would appreciate it if you could stay away from personal remarks.

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

Firstly,
The only reason I brought up my families past is because someone said that I have no right to go for Collingwood.
Secondly Richardson's dad was responsible for Lockett not coming to Collingwood, that is old news.
Thirdly my family had nothing to do with the last ten years. You can blame that on the Rose family (Kevin Rose is still on the board at Collingwood).
Have a look at the real issue not me.

May the St Kevin's Old Boys Prevail.

[cobood]

Oh for heavens sake Rohan...... get over it will ya.... stop shoving your family down everyones throat...I've had enough.....

BE LOUD......BE PROUD

[KRISTEN!!!]

i'm with you cobood! :-)

*GO PIEBOYS*
TARKS FOREVA

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

This is my last post on the matter. Try to look at the issues not me.

After reading a few comments about our recruiting I have come to the conclusion that it’s going to be a long time before we have success if we recruit like we have in the last three years.
Judkins, Balme and Malthouse to a lesser degree have to take the responsibility for this poor performance.

It’s probably a given that only Fremantle have had a better pick of the draft in the last three years and at the same time I think only Fremantle have given away more quality players for little return like Collingwood.

I have tried to build a case for Judkins recruiting over this period. Nick Davis (father son), Fraser (number 1), Tarrant (, Lonie (37), Leon Davis (34), O’Bree (1, preseason) and Didak (3) appear to be the standouts. Of these players only Lonie and Neon could be considered “bargain basements” because the rest have been taken very high in the draft as a result of our poor results.
It’s also interesting to note that Tarkyrn was overlooked by Judkins in the 98 draft and was only picked up by Collingwood because of his reserve’s performances.

I have also compared our picks to other clubs. Roach (7) was taken at the same time of Haselby, Brown and Pavilich. Shaw (1 was taken at the same time of Green, Spriggs and Brown (BL?).
Oborne was taken at the same time of Fevola, Begley, Jacobs and Henenemen. Wasley was drafted instead of Nick Stevens also. On this count it’s laughable how bad he is..

Another indicator of a recruiting officer is how he can recycle current players. Read these names. Gibson, Tape, Ukovic (traded effectively for Hille), Mangin, Smith (traded for A Kellaway), Lane, Orchard, McKee, Oalernshaw (traded for A Ramanauskas) and Orchard. All these investments have been costly and haven’t yielded any results; at worst we have given an All Australian and Premiership player for some of these players.

Holland, Steinfort, Clement and Molloy appear to be exceptions to this rule. However it’s premature to cast assertions about their value as they have only been at the club for one year. An analogy of this is how Lane had a great year in 99 but he has failed to reproduce in the last two years.

The last factor I took into account is have we got value for the players we have given away. Schauble and Sav Rocca (32 goals this year) were given away for practically nothing. Sure he got Neon out of the Old Xaverian trade, but I would rather a key defender than a forward pocket who drifts in and out of the game.
Every week I watch Sav I am warming to the idea that we didn’t get any value for him. Surely he was worth a player or a draft pick considering he had kicked over 500 goals in his career.
This may be wrong but we also gave Scott Russell away for nothing in 99. It was more of a fault of Chins McGuire trying to show to Russell’s manager who is boss rather than a flaw of Judkins and co.
Williams however appear to a positive trade but once again the misses outweigh the hits.

I don’t buy the argument that just because Judkins had a successful recruiting period at Essendon it’s going to happen at Collingwood. The circumstances there were different; he had a proven recruiter in Sheedy at his side and a more talented list to trade players for picks. Also Misiti, Mercuri and Alessio came through the under 19 side prior to 92. Lloyd and Lucas were taken through concessions and Ramanauskas, Barnes, Solomon and Mark Johnson were taken after Judkins left the club so he can’t take as much credit for Essendon’s era than he receives.

I heard him talk recently saying that when he drafts he goes for the best player regardless of physique. This has lead to an abundance of medium sized players at Collingwood and a lack of key position players that we so desperately require. People may say that there aren’t any big kids in the draft but you only have to look how we drafted Roach (I have seen better players in the APS such as Penny, O’Keefe and Judd) at the same time Brown and Pavilich were taken.


May the St Kevin's Old Boys Prevail.

[PieGirl39]

Everyone is equal at Collingwood, Rohan. Bear this in mind when you post and I (and I suspect, many others) might respect your opinions more.

[Legsy]

It is interesting to see that no one from Collingwood, who regularly read the posts on this site has responded. Maybe they think it is not worth reponding too.
I think that as much as I am disappointed in the overall drafting & trading in the last few years, the club has made a decision to rebuild through youth, and has gone that way. I think it is now time to start trying to draft or trade for established quality players. We are certainly in much better shape than when Sholly and Gubby were at the helm, in the early 90's. These 2 lost their way after the 1990 win.
My biggest fear is that we have the best player to play at Collingwood in years, Bucks, and at 28, turning 29, his prime is fast passing him. I don't want to see us build a team that will take 4 years to be competitive, and our champion is 31/32, with a couple left in him, and no finals action.
We will not see another Bucks for 10-20 years maybe, and we are not taking advantage of his riches of talent. GET A TEAM AROUND HIM!
The idea of trading bucks for 2 quality players and 2 high draft choices has been spoken about before, and I would never want to see him out of our jumper, but if this rebuilding phase is going to pay off after he has had his day, then should we think of the club and team first, and take advantage of the situation before it is too late?

[junkboy75]

look, mr coventry does have a point. c'wood's recruitment HAS been poor over the years. as was mentioned, they passed on some very good players, they even missed out on mark porter (imagine if they have him now). but most will agree that the recruitment for this year has been out of sight, esp. the recruitment of players from other clubs. that's why c'wood are pushing for a spot in the finals rather than being cellar dwellers. and I reckon MM has had a big say in the recruitment as well. one of the reasons why the pies got clement was because MM rated him very highly. I think c'wood's idea is to recycle players from other clubs while the younger players develop into gun players. we can already see that the likes of fraser, didak, lonie et al, after playing together for a few years, will form the nucleus of a very good side. that's the reason why c'wood didn't go for the big name recruit (although they tried). that's why they shouldn't and rather, they should continue this policy of recycling quality players from other sides.

whatever happens, we MUST place faith in the board and staff. this is not a company and we are not shareholders for christ's sake!! previous posts talk of accountability as if the pies have to maximise our shareholder's wealth!! accountability for what? for providing us with entertainment week in week out? for giving us a great team to cheer?? we buy memberships to be entertained, it's like buying tickets to see a show. sometimes you see good shows, sometimes bad. but you keep coming back because you enjoy watching. I reckon c'wood now has a very vibrant culture, unlike some other teams


"everyone's a winner hot pies"

[Fradam]

More grabs from Rohan

"I have also compared our picks to other clubs. Roach (7) was taken at the same time of Haselby, Brown and Pavilich. Shaw (1 was taken at the same time of Green, Spriggs and Brown"

"Holland, Steinfort, Clement and Molloy appear to be exceptions to this rule. However it’s premature to cast assertions about their value as they have only been at the club for one year"

Roach and Shaw have been at the club not much longer than a year yet your quick to cast assertions on them. I think your being hypocritical Rohan.

Fradam Wrote This

[Member]

To all the people that now me they now that my facts are correct and spot on.
I haven't been on here for some time but thought that this topic needed some facts to do it Justice.

Rohan,
If you think Judkins is overrated then I think you make a huge mistake.

Here are some of the facts.

Olarenshaw was picked up on Tony Shaws and David Wheadons request. Judkins actually opposed the move at the time because he new his injury status prior coming to collingwood. But Shaw wanted him.

Fraser Gehrig rejested our offer because of money simple as that.
Lucky we didnt pay him that sort of money. We have since found out that Gehring has no cartlidge in his new and struggles to train.

Nick Stevens stayed at Port Adelaide because his brother was into his second year of a contract with an sanfl club and he wanted to support him as his brother had supported him before.
I have been also told since then that and the end of this current contract Nick will be headed back to Melbourne for other family reasons.

The clinton King/Mckee/Roach/3rd and 7th pick was complicated but here was the logic and yes Noel Judkins was involved in this one.
At the time Roach was rated in the top 8 pics in the land. He was one of the most versitile players in the under age competition. Richmond wanted 3rd pick in order to get Fiora but they also wanted Clinton King.
At the time Shane O'bree had agreed to join collingwood and they felt that obree and king were vying for the same spot in the team and therefore the could off load him to Richmond for Mckee as we needed a backup ruckman (dont forget Mckee is only 22.
At the time Josh Fraser and Hasleby were the standouts and pics 3 to 10 were all even. Roach figured so promptly in our plans at the time because of his performances that they would have picked him at 3 anyway. So it was decided to give richmond pick 3 and King for pick 7 and Mckee and with the notion of picking up Roach at 7 and having obree on board to replace King.

Now you can argue until the cows come home but the only one not performing at the moment is Roach (he was injured last year and has had an ilness this year Glandular fever).

Schauble left because he wanted to go to Sydney to live. He is slow has no turning circle and gets cut up at the MCG. Sydney suits him. Noel Judkins wasnt involved in this one either.

Paul Williams left because of many reasons.
He was 28 suffers for shins and knee problems, wanted to earn 400 thousand dollars a year, tried to shaft Nanthan Buckley and had some gambling debts. Noel Judkins wasn't ivolved in this one either.

So Rohan if you want anymore facts then let me know.
Unless you know the absolute facts then don't open your trap and spin some of the absolute crap and rubbish that comes out of your mouth. Don't speculate just tell the truth.

Until next time

[hoggy]

my opinion is this on every player after reading the first post.
1. neon leon - excitement machine, stands up at stages and can only improve
2. chipper - been injured but will be a star
3. richo - plodded against barker but takes contested marks and needs to be against players like mckernan
4. dids - star of the future
5. bucks - has potential . lol
6. dutchy - another goal sneak who could improve into a robert harvey type player
7. d9 - needs to kick more goals but his influence on others is all good
8. jimmy - can play anywhere, pickup of the year
9. freebs - needs to play midfield but has experience
10. rup - at crossroads, was a key member when shaw was coach
11. ob - champ
12. macca - important for fraser to play forward, needs to jump
13. uka - could be gone, needs solid footy at end of season
14. wakes - has done good jobs on good players
15. funky - a good tagger who also gets the ball, must shepard
16. wazza - injury hasn't helped but has good pace
17. burnsie - experienced and a good platyer with a sus hammy
18. lica - opposite to what rohan says, would be about 3rd in b&f
19. davo - could be an absolute superstar
20. taz - champ but didn't look interested on saturday
21. tucks - unlucky with molloy coming but needs goals for willy
22. shawry - will play,needs time, has a big burden with the name
23. pebbles - last qtr sat. was sensational, coming of age
24. tark - "trade bait" i think not, ever reliable,
25. rogan - brownlow medal
26. johnno - established in best 22
27. baynesy - i like him but can't see him staying
28. bolts - good defender but MM has tried to make him a forward?
29. scotto - great ansett cup then got dropped
30. roachy - 1 game, 1 tackle, could be his career stats
31. dima - showed he can play with his game on woewodin
32. stoney - who would know
33. tubby - got dropped playing good footy, on the outer i'd say
34. clokey - will be here a long time
35. presti - ever reliable and has pace even though looks slow
36. richo#2 - a beanpole, needs years to develop
37. lone ranger - slowing down but should get rising star award
38. rints - great start, unlucky but coming back now
44. hilly - seen him at willy, good player

in the words of mike sheehan "what do you think"

"Don't think, DO!!!"

[The room service guy]

Hoggy, Lonie has exceeded all expectations and has slowed down. I reckon Daniel Kerr from the Weagles will win the Rising Star.
He CAN play.

THE RUP IS ON FIRE!!!!!!!!!!

[afisher]

Although I dont agree with what has been the point of this thread (and ultimately we can only really judge Judkins in hind-sight over a number of years eg 6 to 10), I certainly like the fact that Rohan can raise these issues and bring forward some constructive debate (for and against Judkins) into the forum. I think most who have addressed the issue (as opposed to abusing Rohan) have raised good points, and this type of debate can only, for the faithful , reaffirm why they support the greatest club in the league.
Gp Pies and Go Judkins



[This message has been edited by afisher (edited 23 July 2001).]