| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
I remember as a kid watching some documentary about the heavy metal band Judas Priest going to court over some kids suicide. The parents blamed the 'satanic music'
Also you are probably familiar with the 'West Memphis Three' - basically a town of god-fearing rednecks blamed the murder of a few boys on some teenagers who were into black clothing and metallica. they were convicted and imprisoned despite evidence. |
|
|
|
 |
think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Jones town, and those weird people led by Anne Hamilton on the blue mountains I think it was.
Wackos led by evil,
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Woods Of Ypres wrote: | I remember as a kid watching some documentary about the heavy metal band Judas Priest going to court over some kids suicide. The parents blamed the 'satanic music'
Also you are probably familiar with the 'West Memphis Three' - basically a town of god-fearing rednecks blamed the murder of a few boys on some teenagers who were into black clothing and metallica. they were convicted and imprisoned despite evidence. |
Only vaguely familiar with them when I posted this, but I just watched West of Memphis the other night. Not the greatest documentary ever made (the middle bit where the celebrities come to the rescue, reminiscent of the 'Film Actors Guild' scenes from Team America, is pretty unintentionally hilarious), but it did provide a fairly concise overview of the case. The fact that post mortem animal interference was unquestioningly presumed to be evidence of ritual slaughter tells us a lot about the case and the way cases like this were interpreted at the time. Medieval paranoia is never far around the corner, it seems.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
|
|
|
|
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| I once knew someone who was raised in this setting. The people involved are very powerful and any attempt to 'out' it usually ends badly. He was in counselling for years and didn't really want to go into detail but it's pretty horrifying the things that go on behind closed doors in our communities. And yes it was judges, politicians, health professionals etc that were involved in both the activities and subsequent cover ups. This guy eventually ran to Tasmania (from SA where it was happening) to get away. He had to see a cult deprogammer and everything. |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| swoop42 wrote: | | From what I've heard and read over the years the whole Satanic cult claims were found to be totally false by the F.B.I |
Considering the people involved here (I was told of a Judge, politician and some high ranking police. I'm not stupid enough to name names in public though, even here) it doesn't surprise me that an 'official' investigation would prove fruitless. People who chase up these things face as much trouble as insiders trying to expose it from what my acquaintance told me. |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | | I once knew someone who was raised in this setting. The people involved are very powerful and any attempt to 'out' it usually ends badly. He was in counselling for years and didn't really want to go into detail but it's pretty horrifying the things that go on behind closed doors in our communities. And yes it was judges, politicians, health professionals etc that were involved in both the activities and subsequent cover ups. This guy eventually ran to Tasmania (from SA where it was happening) to get away. He had to see a cult deprogammer and everything. |
I understand that this is a sensitive issue and there's a limit to what you can discuss openly, but was your friend by any chance a victim of 'repressed memories' which emerged in therapy? Many allegations seem to follow this pattern.
To return to the woman in the OP, she made similar allegations but, having read her book I'm convinced that a) she genuinely believes that she experienced what she did and b) that her memories have been implanted through questionable therapeutic practices.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
For me, the most difficult thing to accept is that supposedly 'satanic' practices could be commonplace in our predominantly post-religious society, particularly amongst educated people. It doesn't quite seem credible. What's the motivation?
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | I once knew someone who was raised in this setting. The people involved are very powerful and any attempt to 'out' it usually ends badly. He was in counselling for years and didn't really want to go into detail but it's pretty horrifying the things that go on behind closed doors in our communities. And yes it was judges, politicians, health professionals etc that were involved in both the activities and subsequent cover ups. This guy eventually ran to Tasmania (from SA where it was happening) to get away. He had to see a cult deprogammer and everything. |
I understand that this is a sensitive issue and there's a limit to what you can discuss openly, but was your friend by any chance a victim of 'repressed memories' which emerged in therapy? Many allegations seem to follow this pattern.
To return to the woman in the OP, she made similar allegations but, having read her book I'm convinced that a) she genuinely believes that she experienced what she did and b) that her memories have been implanted through questionable therapeutic practices. |
I don't know, but I don't think his memories were repressed, I could be wrong or he may just not know the difference. The human mind can be quite suggestible, there's a show where a British magician/hypnotist programs someone to kill Stephen Fry and while they were blanks in the gun, the guy didn't know that and went through with it.
Of course it's a great way to discredit credible witnesses by saying that what they remember was implanted during therapy. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^
I've always understood that you can't be hypnotized to do something against your will. You could only be hypnotised into killing someone if that didn't fundamentally conflict with your wiring.
eg, you could probably hypnotise me into killing someone I didn't really know or have any affection for, but no chance you could get me to do one of my kids.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | ^
I've always understood that you can't be hypnotized to do something against your will. You could only be hypnotised into killing someone if that didn't fundamentally conflict with your wiring.
eg, you could probably hypnotise me into killing someone I didn't really know or have any affection for, but no chance you could get me to do one of my kids. |
It was a fairly elaborate process and the man they chose was determined to be highly susceptible to suggestion. It was done through escalating triggering events so in the end he did it and didn't remember. He was shown a video afterwards of himself shooting Fry.
Article on the show:
http://merovee.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/derren-brown-the-assassin/
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc9y1UYIqv0&list=PL2BF352953A7C09EE&index=1 |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | | Of course it's a great way to discredit credible witnesses by saying that what they remember was implanted during therapy. |
Yep, there's that component too. What should be made clear is that the existence of false memories is objective fact. Consider this article here, for instance:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/How-Our-Brains-Make-Memories.html
The problem, as you point out, is that this could be used to undermine the testimony of genuine abuse victims. I think you have to give people the benefit of the doubt when they say they remember something, though I'd treat recovered 'repressed' memories with a grain of salt. Many of the recovery methods (hypnosis, past-life regression therapy) seem quite dubious and likely to influence the creation of new memories.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| All eye witness evidence is shaky when you look at studies into its accuracy, and repressed memories seem to be even worse, going from just a bit shaky to completely fabricated. I don't think the guy I was talking to had 'repressed' memory though, I think he remembered all too well but then, people suffering psychosis do legitimately believe the crazy shit they're saying. |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I wonder if a lot of it has similarity to increased UFO claims after the 1940s. SRA followed a similar pattern—after a few successful pulp novels and TV films in the early '80s, a whole spate of people started claiming all sorts of extravagant things (which, from the little I've read, always seemed to involve the most #%*$ed-up things they could imagine—an interesting insight into the late 20th century Western psyche, perhaps).
The biggest problem with the 'conspiracy' hypothesis is the way the issue was treated. There seems to have been a pretty genuine full-on moral panic in America regarding SRA in the '80s, and not merely among common folk—the police, according to the Wikipedia article, at one point elevated it to number one priority for investigation over all other forms of child abuse (a fact that I find staggering), while the corporate-owned newspapers and TV stations flogged it for all it was worth. People like the West Memphis Three were convicted and sent to jail. If this really were a cult practiced amongst the wealthy elite, wouldn't they have used their considerable power to squash it? And yet, this is the same logic that advocates offer for it not being talked about any more.
The reason people don't talk about it much any more doesn't seem to be because of suppression. The reason seems to be that the process for 'recovering' SRA memories—the place from which the vast bulk of claims emerged—is now considered junk therapy. I'm inclined to agree with that summation. While something like Satanic Ritual Abuse may exist in places (as we saw in today's NSW incest story, there are some weirdos out there), but the vast bulk of what was claimed in the '80s and '90s seems like a disconcertingly recent update on the Salem witch trials.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
