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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Wokko wrote: |
Yeah, this shit is starting to pop up more and more. I thought they'd go for polygamy or incest first, but this seems to be the next step down the slippery slope that we were assured wasn't real.
Strap in, you're witnessing the death of Western Civilization. |
Get a grip, Wokko – nobody's suggesting that child abuse is ok or should be tolerated (well, nobody with any academic credibility). She's quite clearly talking about the condition (i.e. the mental illness) and how it should be treated. What's the big deal?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| David wrote: |
Everything she says makes complete sense. Not her fault that some people are too stupid to comprehend. |
What.... "peadophillia is a sexual preference"... "these people haven't done anything wrong"
You might as well make the arguement that rape is "a sexual preference"....
If you thinks it's acceptable to refer to someone wanting to have sex with a child as somebody with a "sexual preference"... why not a rapist?
It's fvckn ridiculous and this pathetic movement needs to be called out for what it is.... Garbage!
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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By "these people" she obviously means people with this sexual disorder who don't abuse children – that is to say, the fact of having these desires isn't immoral, it's what people choose to do with them that is. And everyone does have choices, including paedophiles.
There's plenty of data out there demonstrating that there is a certain subset of people in society who are only or primarily sexually attracted to children, usually of a certain age range and gender. How this originates isn't wholly understood – it may be some combination of genetics, upbringing or childhood trauma – but nobody's disputing that it is the case. You can refer to it as a mental illness, a disorder or even a sexual orientation, but the bottom line is that some people, through no choice of their own, are wired this way.
We have several possible ways of dealing with that fact: a) pretending that they don't exist; b) treating them with hostility and ostracisation; or c) recognising that it's a condition like any other – one that, like some other mental illnesses, may entail risks to other people's safety – and that it should be treated compassionately and sensitively. At the moment, we practice some combination of a) and b); my argument has always been (and I'm encouraged to see others advocating this position) that the best option by far is c). Not only because it will make these people's lives a lot better than they currently are, but because it will also prevent a great deal of child abuse.
Where your analogy with rapists doesn't work is that rapists' sexual orientation is 'normal' (whether it be straight, gay or bi, etc.), but how they choose to enact it is sometimes violent. I do acknowledge that there may be some people who, for various reasons, only get turned on by rape or rape-like scenarios, but that would ordinarily be considered a fetish – and the BDSM community is one way in which they can practice that fetish safely and ethically.
There are better approaches to social problems than hatred or violence, as much as some of us might find it hard to believe. The best start is to listen to the experts and to think carefully about how such problems can be dealt with – our best guides remain compassion, empathy and intellectual rigour.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Did you just compare an illegal sexual preference to a mental illness?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Um, what? For starters, there is no such thing as an illegal sexual preference. Secondly, if you're referring to paedophilia, I wasn't comparing it to mental illness, I was saying it is a mental illness.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Which is my point. Not that long ago, homosexuality was considered a mental illness
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| David wrote: | By "these people" she obviously means people with this sexual disorder who don't abuse children – that is to say, the fact of having these desires isn't immoral, it's what people choose to do with them that is. And everyone does have choices, including paedophiles.
There's plenty of data out there demonstrating that there is a certain subset of people in society who are only or primarily sexually attracted to children, usually of a certain age range and gender. How this originates isn't wholly understood – it may be some combination of genetics, upbringing or childhood trauma – but nobody's disputing that it is the case. You can refer to it as a mental illness, a disorder or even a sexual orientation, but the bottom line is that some people, through no choice of their own, are wired this way.
We have several possible ways of dealing with that fact: a) pretending that they don't exist; b) treating them with hostility and ostracisation; or c) recognising that it's a condition like any other – one that, like some other mental illnesses, may entail risks to other people's safety – and that it should be treated compassionately and sensitively. At the moment, we practice some combination of a) and b); my argument has always been (and I'm encouraged to see others advocating this position) that the best option by far is c). Not only because it will make these people's lives a lot better than they currently are, but because it will also prevent a great deal of child abuse.
Where your analogy with rapists doesn't work is that rapists' sexual orientation is 'normal' (whether it be straight, gay or bi, etc.), but how they choose to enact it is sometimes violent. I do acknowledge that there may be some people who, for various reasons, only get turned on by rape or rape-like scenarios, but that would ordinarily be considered a fetish – and the BDSM community is one way in which they can practice that fetish safely and ethically.
There are better approaches to social problems than hatred or violence, as much as some of us might find it hard to believe. The best start is to listen to the experts and to think carefully about how such problems can be dealt with – our best guides remain compassion, empathy and intellectual rigour. |
Oh that's right.... these, just out of puberty, girls are experts.... how silly of me to question somebody who's an 'expert' on pedos.
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I wasn’t necessarily talking about the speakers in the video you posted, but given your sexist remark, I looked one of them up. She seems to know a hell of a lot more about the subject than some people:
https://www.ted.com/tedx/events/24068
| Quote: | Mirjam Heine
Medical Student
One to two percent of the main male population is considered as pedophiles. This means worldwide more than 57 million people. Therefore, pedophilia is not an irrelevant phenomenon we can ignore. It is unrelated to class status and educational level. The medical student Mirjam Heine explains how an appropriate approach to the unchangeable sexual orientation pedophilia might look like. She is mainly guided by the works of Prof Dr. Beier, the head of the institute for sexology and sexual medicine at the University Hospital Berlin and the prevention network “Kein Täter Werden” (meaning “don’t offend”). Hence, she also believes that no one is responsible for their sexual orientation, for their feelings, but that everyone is responsible for acting upon this sexual orientation. She also inquires how all of us can gain if we distinguish clearly between our feelings and our actions. Since pedophiles can’t change their sexual desires, they must learn to control them to not act upon them. |
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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It’s a language problem. Calling it a “sexual orientation” is language that suggests it is permissible, since just about every other sexual orientation is permissible with consent (indeed, you’d have to amend Human .rights laws in many places or you’d never be able to outlaw it). While the basic concept is right -paedophilia is an illness, and it needs treatment, as well as punishment if it is indulged - the language she uses is a bit unhelpful.
I don’t know if it can be treated, but for the sake of the poor devils afflicted with this horrible urge, I hope so. We all know, nowadays, that sexuality is one of the most powerful forces in human nature. We should pity those who feel such a dreadful kind of desire, even as we punish its indulgence.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Whether it's sexual orientation, a fetish, or indeed a mental illness, I'm not sure it's anymore treatable than any other sexual inclination is.
The key point would be to provide support for those who identify with this condition and seriously penalise those who act on it.
Not everyone is hardwired to a black or white version of sexuality, it doesn't work that way and you can't change the wiring.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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There's "chemical castration", which basically tries to wipe out all sexual desire and has serious side-effects...
Not the greatest-sounding "solution", but that's typical of psychiatry, whatever its practitioners claim. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Apart from basic human rights issues, there’s plenty of evidence that chemical castration is actually pretty ineffective in terms of preventing child abuse. I think cognitive behavioural therapy and specialist counselling probably remain the best approaches.
Well said, Stui – I think that basic approach would work well. While it’s (probably) not curable, it’s certainly manageable.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| News articles name countries like the UK and Canada, etc. (I would need to look to see in what numbers and what circumstances.) I'm pretty sure you can assault the brain sufficiently to kill off all sexual desire (starting from any type of sexual desire), but indeed this seems a satisfactory solution only in the eyes of psychiatry, etc. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Psychiatry is not useless, but it is very overrated. It mostly fulfills our need to believe that we can manage things which are, in truth, pretty intractable.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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