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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: |
Sad days ahead.
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Sad days behind mate.
The birth of the next era of success starts soon. |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| stoliboy wrote: | In the last quarter Langdon had taken a couple of good marks on the wing not far out from the 50m line.
Langdon handballs to Treleor who then decides to kick backwards, and it results in a turnover.
Can anyone explain to me what Treleor was thinking/planning with that kick?
Treleor is a good kick of the football but her seems to not want to make the hard play sometimes and instead look to hand off to another player I.e. A quick handball. Is he shirking his responsibility as a senior player? |
But this is the problem, its a constant theme in our play, kick it backwards and quite often they **** it up. Surely at some stage people realise its not players doing the wrong thing but what they are being told to do? |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| CarringbushCigar wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: |
Sad days ahead.
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Sad days behind mate.
The birth of the next era of success starts soon. |
Yeah I mean lets be honest, apart from actually winning a wooden spoon, have the last six years been enjoyable. Without doubt I have never felt this bad about our clubs prospects during these last 6 very long years (actually 7 or so cause you can include the misery of seeing our club tear itself apart in 2011).
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!!
Last edited by The Boy Who Cried Wolf on Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| watt price tully wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | The reason Collingwood is where it is now on the ladder is due to several reasons as is obvious to any one except those with tickets on themselves.
Is is a combination of factors including but not limited to:
1. Players skills
2. Coaching plans, strategies & tactics
3. Selection committee including the coach
4. Player availability.
On game day it is a combination of factors including player execution of skills & coaching tactics. The extent to which these factors occur in a game will vary on the day, the time & the scenario
This is common sense.
If a player or players on the opposing team are controlling the game, such as patterns of play not anticipated or not adequately addressed by pre-game planning then the coach needs to accountable & make moves accordingly.
If a coach or coaching team responds too slowly to difficulties encountered then the game can be lost or the advantage at that time point in time can be lost. If coaches are too inflexible to only see one way of doing things then that will reflect on what the team does.
To suggest it's players only is as limited and narrow an analysis as that view self evidently suggests. To not entertain the idea that there is a combination of factors at play (only the degree to which that combination is at play is debatable) & to reduce that to an arbitrary number based on speculation such as 98% & 2% is just as limited as doing accountancy on the back of a sheet of toilet paper. |
Nothing to do with tickets on myself. Also, your view is not even close to common sense, it omits multiple factors.
Do you want me to take you through the Gary Rohan supposed "move" again that you suggested was the reason that Sydney beat Essendon two Friday nights ago? As I posted in that thread, there were numerous player decisions, player non-decisions, player skill errors, good play by players, positioning errors by players, etc, that occurred before Rohan even got his chance to be involved in the contest. |
I'll type this slowly so you get the gist:
I am writing that there are multiple factors whilst you post there is only one that is players only that have a role on game day. I stated quite clearly that there is more than just players involved. I have already stated that players have a role, indeed a significant role but not an exclusive role which is your (limited in my view) contention. I'm not saying anything remarkable indeed what I am saying is part of the Mastermind challenge: special subject: the bleedin' obvious.
Gary Rohan still kicked the winning goal & was due to some of the reasons you mentioned. However call me captain obvious, Gary did not shift himself ( I noted that I told my Essendon supporting daughter he ought o have shifted Rohan in the 3rd - indeed he started forward in their most recent match . The coach did. Others mentioned a coach who made a move that didn't work out again reflecting not just the players involvement but the coach that is, there is more than one ingredient that goes into making the team win on game day and during a match.
Unless you've done a path analysis or a form thereof which examines multifactorial variables and places a value on each them (Path analysis is a straightforward extension of multiple regression. Its aim is to provide estimates of the magnitude and significance of hypothesised causal connections between sets of variables) your 98% was in effect as evidence based as astrology or the sport of international goat f*cking - I'll resist temptation.... |
Mr Tully, your view is clearly understood from my end, but I clearly don't agree with it because your argument is flawed beyond belief. To be blunt, your argument shows a lack of intelligence, which is surprising from a person that from his posts appears to be intelligent.
To start with, there are 44 participants that directly impact the result of an AFL match. 22 from one side, 22 from the other side. These 44 participants are on the field during play and the match will be won or lost be these 44 participants.
A person sitting in a box 100 metres away from the play has little to no impact on the result of the match, unless that person is incompetent during the week in explaining to his players how we want to set up and play and how the opposition wants to set up and play. The fact that we have been in a winning position in 13 of 14 matches shows that the person in question is not incompetent.
To say that a result of an AFL match is jointly, which is implying 50%, the responsibility of the coach and the players is laughable and beyond a joke. As I typed above, you appear an intelligent man, but your analytical skills need a lot of work in the field of AFL, professional sport and professional athletes.
As I have posted before re Gary Rohan, he was rotating to different parts of the ground, including midfield and forward throughout the match, as part of his team's rotations and to be blunt you have absolutely no idea if Longmire made the move or if it was just part of the team's rotations. In fact, even if he did make the move, as I explained about 20 things, all player related, had to happen before he even had a chance to impact the contest. So, did this "move" significantly impact the result of the match, not even close.
Last edited by mooretreloar on Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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So watt price tully join the long long long list of posters here who are unintelligent, stupid, flawed beyond belief and a whole host of other failings because you disagree with a certain poster.
Pointless arguing with him.
Starting to think whether he is a troll.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| thompsoc wrote: | So watt price tully join the long long long list of posters here who are unintelligent, stupid, flawed beyond belief and a whole host of other failings because you disagree with a certain poster.
Pointless arguing with him.
Starting to think whether he is a troll. |
Troll, or club plant does it matter?!? He does nothing but attack any poster that cares to disagree with his version of the world. I mean how many people have to tell him he's wrong before he gets it? it's all become a bit of a yawn fest to be honest.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | So watt price tully join the long long long list of posters here who are unintelligent, stupid, flawed beyond belief and a whole host of other failings because you disagree with a certain poster.
Pointless arguing with him.
Starting to think whether he is a troll. |
Troll, or club plant does it matter?!? He does nothing but attack any poster that cares to disagree with his version of the world. I mean how many people have to tell him he's wrong before he gets it? it's all become a bit of a yawn fest to be honest. |
Not a troll, just a person that understands professional sport.
Mr Wolf, the actual point is how many times do I need to point out the same thing over and over again until it gets through to your thick skulls. I will keep typing it until you and your mates get it.
You and your mates add nothing of value to the site. All you do is show your misunderstanding of AFL and professional sport. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Seriously getting sick of the abuse! Just because you use big words doesn't make it ok. Just can't understand why you'd want to bother with us minions!
None of us are 'lacking intelligence", stupid, or uninformed or ignorant about the game we love. We just have an opinion, just as you do, and everyone has a right to be heard without being told they are ignorant.
Intelligent people with friends have something in common, they can disagree without abusing each other!
Mooretreloar if you really believe (and quite frankly I find that beyond belief) that the coach is only worth 2 percent on match day, how about we give him a break for a week? I'd love to see what the players could do if they are not looking over their shoulders waiting to be told run over there and leave defence vacant, man the position between those two players and defend them both, I reckon set free they would actually flourish! And another thing how much is he costing us? Wow we could drop membership fees by a fair bit if we get rid of the two percent coach!
And I also would like to know: who prepares the players for match day? Who picks the players for match day, who gives the, the game plan? hell who decides we need another 10 5'10 players? (Give that man a medal!) it's all for match day, no other reason.
You think everyone else's reasoning makes no sense? Well gee golly me, can we get a vote on it? Who thinks the coach has input on match day?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| mooretreloar wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | So watt price tully join the long long long list of posters here who are unintelligent, stupid, flawed beyond belief and a whole host of other failings because you disagree with a certain poster.
Pointless arguing with him.
Starting to think whether he is a troll. |
Troll, or club plant does it matter?!? He does nothing but attack any poster that cares to disagree with his version of the world. I mean how many people have to tell him he's wrong before he gets it? it's all become a bit of a yawn fest to be honest. |
Not a troll, just a person that understands professional sport.
Mr Wolf, the actual point is how many times do I need to point out the same thing over and over again until it gets through to your thick skulls. I will keep typing it until you and your mates get it.
You and your mates add nothing of value to the site. All you do is show your misunderstanding of AFL and professional sport. |
You really are disgusting.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| watt price tully wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | The reason Collingwood is where it is now on the ladder is due to several reasons as is obvious to any one except those with tickets on themselves.
Is is a combination of factors including but not limited to:
1. Players skills
2. Coaching plans, strategies & tactics
3. Selection committee including the coach
4. Player availability.
On game day it is a combination of factors including player execution of skills & coaching tactics. The extent to which these factors occur in a game will vary on the day, the time & the scenario
This is common sense.
If a player or players on the opposing team are controlling the game, such as patterns of play not anticipated or not adequately addressed by pre-game planning then the coach needs to accountable & make moves accordingly.
If a coach or coaching team responds too slowly to difficulties encountered then the game can be lost or the advantage at that time point in time can be lost. If coaches are too inflexible to only see one way of doing things then that will reflect on what the team does.
To suggest it's players only is as limited and narrow an analysis as that view self evidently suggests. To not entertain the idea that there is a combination of factors at play (only the degree to which that combination is at play is debatable) & to reduce that to an arbitrary number based on speculation such as 98% & 2% is just as limited as doing accountancy on the back of a sheet of toilet paper. |
Nothing to do with tickets on myself. Also, your view is not even close to common sense, it omits multiple factors.
Do you want me to take you through the Gary Rohan supposed "move" again that you suggested was the reason that Sydney beat Essendon two Friday nights ago? As I posted in that thread, there were numerous player decisions, player non-decisions, player skill errors, good play by players, positioning errors by players, etc, that occurred before Rohan even got his chance to be involved in the contest. |
I'll type this slowly so you get the gist:
I am writing that there are multiple factors whilst you post there is only one that is players only that have a role on game day. I stated quite clearly that there is more than just players involved. I have already stated that players have a role, indeed a significant role but not an exclusive role which is your (limited in my view) contention. I'm not saying anything remarkable indeed what I am saying is part of the Mastermind challenge: special subject: the bleedin' obvious.
Gary Rohan still kicked the winning goal & was due to some of the reasons you mentioned. However call me captain obvious, Gary did not shift himself ( I noted that I told my Essendon supporting daughter he ought o have shifted Rohan in the 3rd - indeed he started forward in their most recent match . The coach did. Others mentioned a coach who made a move that didn't work out again reflecting not just the players involvement but the coach that is, there is more than one ingredient that goes into making the team win on game day and during a match.
Unless you've done a path analysis or a form thereof which examines multifactorial variables and places a value on each them (Path analysis is a straightforward extension of multiple regression. Its aim is to provide estimates of the magnitude and significance of hypothesised causal connections between sets of variables) your 98% was in effect as evidence based as astrology or the sport of international goat f*cking - I'll resist temptation.... |
Well done WPT.
I liked your last sentence.
Finally, we know where Mooretreloar's sporting prowess is to be found. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| think positive wrote: | Seriously getting sick of the abuse! Just because you use big words doesn't make it ok. Just can't understand why you'd want to bother with us minions!
None of us are 'lacking intelligence", stupid, or uninformed or ignorant about the game we love. We just have an opinion, just as you do, and everyone has a right to be heard without being told they are ignorant.
Intelligent people with friends have something in common, they can disagree without abusing each other!
Mooretreloar if you really believe (and quite frankly I find that beyond belief) that the coach is only worth 2 percent on match day, how about we give him a break for a week? I'd love to see what the players could do if they are not looking over their shoulders waiting to be told run over there and leave defence vacant, man the position between those two players and defend them both, I reckon set free they would actually flourish! And another thing how much is he costing us? Wow we could drop membership fees by a fair bit if we get rid of the two percent coach!
And I also would like to know: who prepares the players for match day? Who picks the players for match day, who gives the, the game plan? hell who decides we need another 10 5'10 players? (Give that man a medal!) it's all for match day, no other reason.
You think everyone else's reasoning makes no sense? Well gee golly me, can we get a vote on it? Who thinks the coach has input on match day? |
TP,
Don't get too stressed over what he says. He's not playing with a full deck. He has previously mentioned that his father has mental health problems. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. If that's not the case, he is a troll doing it just to get a rise out of people. He may even be a Carlton supporter that wants Buckley to stay. |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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Just a novel idea, maybe just stop for a second and consider is it possible that you are wrong? Is it possible you don't understand professional sport? Is it possible that you don't understand the role of a coach? Is it possible that you don't understand the role of a coach.
Is it possible this poster that you love to have a crack at actually knows what he is talking about? |
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ROB
Joined: 13 Sep 2016
Location: Sydney
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I stuffed the quote bit, but you know who said this..[....To start with, there are 44 participants that directly impact the result of an AFL match. 22 from one side, 22 from the other side. These 44 participants are on the field during play and the match will be won or lost be these 44 participants. [/quote]
I'd suggest there are more than 44, think of the participants sponsored by OPSM for example.......
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Toby for President |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| ROB wrote: | | I stuffed the quote bit, but you know who said this..[....To start with, there are 44 participants that directly impact the result of an AFL match. 22 from one side, 22 from the other side. These 44 participants are on the field during play and the match will be won or lost be these 44 participants. |
I'd suggest there are more than 44, think of the participants sponsored by OPSM for example.......[/quote]
Fair call, they haven't been very kind to us of late, especially against Melbourne and yesterday. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| mooretreloar wrote: | Just a novel idea, maybe just stop for a second and consider is it possible that you are wrong? Is it possible you don't understand professional sport? Is it possible that you don't understand the role of a coach? Is it possible that you don't understand the role of a coach.
Is it possible this poster that you love to have a crack at actually knows what he is talking about? |
Considered.
Rejected. |
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