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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Too bad!!!
Learn the law! If I get caught smoking gunja I'm a criminal, it �int that hard.
Fucj the worlds a messed up place 
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | Good that intends to try and fight it. |
Possibly... or possibly he knows that he's stuffed but wants to drag the matter through the courts for as long as possible to delay the inevitable.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Skids wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | What a terrible loss for Australian democracy. Ludlam has been an outstanding Senator, head and shoulders above most of his kind and his voice of sanity and reason will be sadly missed.
Examle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90K0p-1CCQk
Note that he arrived in Australia as a very young child and had no idea that he was technically also a New Zealand citizen until last week. Note also that he immediately notified the appropriate authorities. (Compare with that dishonest clown Abbott who is still refusing to own up or provide evidence of his citizenship.) |
This has to be the ultimate.... I know I'm 50, but I just wet myself 
No family album??? was he born in the 14th century? |
Actually skids, I thought exactly the same thing. My sister and my parents both got nationalised years ago but I refused to, because I thought exactly that, that I was giving up my British citizenship at the same time. Only when I applied late last year did I realise I get to keep both, unless I choose not too. And I kno others who have said the same thing.
(As for the why, which I always get asked, just because a bit of paper won't change where I was born, so it's just no big deal to me. And yeah I've been told to go back home them a million times! And no I haven't done the test yet, I just got my mums passport from 1970 from my sister yesterday! I sit it in October, that's the earliest! Yes the practice test is a bitch, but I've passed more than I have failed, I'll study the day before! And yes it's full of bullshit!)
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Good that intends to try and fight it. |
Possibly... or possibly he knows that he's stuffed but wants to drag the matter through the courts for as long as possible to delay the inevitable. |
Someone has to test it.
So there is plenty of, can't think of a nicer way to put it, but obvious foreigners on city councils, does the law apply to them too?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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No, it doesn't - Councillors are appointed under State/Territory laws, not under the Commonwealth Constitution.
All of these issues with Commonwealth Senators and Members are a direct consequence of the operation of section 44(i) of the Constitution, which provides that:
"44. Any person who -
(i.) Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power....
shall be incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a senator or a member of the House of Representatives."
Why does it need to be tested - its meaning is pretty obvious? It has already been read down to require, in substance, merely that one do everything in one's power to divest oneself of foreign allegiance or entitlement (because some countries simply will not allow a citizen to renounce citizenship). It might require amendment but I can see a reasonably amusing "No" case being run on that one and I doubt that an amendment would succeed.
I suppose it is possible that the High Court will say that he isn't "really" Italian for some reason or other but if he really is an Italian citizen, that's a bit unlikely. In any event, that would be the High Court finding that, on the facts, the provision doesn't apply to his circumstances - I think it's unlikely that the provision will be read down further. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | No, it doesn't - Councillors are appointed under State/Territory laws, not under the Commonwealth Constitution.
All of these issues with Commonwealth Senators and Members are a direct consequence of the operation of section 44(i) of the Constitution, which provides that:
"44. Any person who -
(i.) Is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power....
shall be incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a senator or a member of the House of Representatives."
Why does it need to be tested - its meaning is pretty obvious? It has already been read down to require, in substance, merely that one do everything in one's power to divest oneself of foreign allegiance or entitlement (because some countries simply will not allow a citizen to renounce citizenship). It might require amendment but I can see a reasonably amusing "No" case being run on that one and I doubt that an amendment would succeed.
I suppose it is possible that the High Court will say that he isn't "really" Italian for some reason or other but if he really is an Italian citizen, that's a bit unlikely. In any event, that would be the High Court finding that, on the facts, the provision doesn't apply to his circumstances - I think it's unlikely that the provision will be read down further. |
Thanks for the info.
Can just see them all scrambling to check now!
I can see why the rule is there,
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I don't support it at all, but reckon Ludlam and Waters did the right thing in not trying to fight it � the precedents made it clear that they would lose, so an extended court battle would have been wasteful and opportunistic. It could be that Canavan's case is a bit more line-ball, or else (and this seems likely) the Libs simply have more money and legal resources to throw away on this.
I'd be on board with anyone from any party fighting to get this law changed; but if a politician is going to use court resources to argue that they should be an exception to the rule, then good luck to them I guess, but it's unlikely that it will change things for the better.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I actually do support it and agree with P4S.
If you want to be elected to represent people of Australia in the federal Parliament of Australia, your allegiance should be to Australia and having citizenship of another country means it isn't, or at least that you have a conflict of interest.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | I actually do support it and agree with P4S.
If you want to be elected to represent people of Australia in the federal Parliament of Australia, your allegiance should be to Australia and having citizenship of another country means it isn't, or at least that you have a conflict of interest. |
I expressed an opinion on the law and a guess about the likelihood of a successful referendum to change it. I wasn't stating any normative position. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | I actually do support it and agree with P4S.
If you want to be elected to represent people of Australia in the federal Parliament of Australia, your allegiance should be to Australia and having citizenship of another country means it isn't, or at least that you have a conflict of interest. |
I expressed an opinion on the law and a guess about the likelihood of a successful referendum to change it. I wasn't stating any normative position. |
OK, I agree with your opinion. I wasn't intending to imply that you agreed with the rest of my post.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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Plenty of people (and I could be one) can apply for an Irish Passport because I had a grandparent born there. Same in the UK. It nakes it easier getting around Europe, Doesn't mean you renounce Australian Citizenship.
The middle east is full of people with people who hold dual passports. If the balloon goes up they yell and scream and Australia is suddenly required to get them out. But then it makes it easy to cancel their Australian Passport if they turn up in some ISIL video.
When working for Defence I once provided some surveillance equipment for the NSW Police to track a pedophile up Moree way. He booked a ticket to Vietnam. Within an hour of the plane leaving they had raided his home and found shot dogs, heaps of kiddie porn and a booby tracked home. They disarmed his home, notified the Viet authorities and they cancelled his Australian passport. He was not a citizen and had left on a Croatian passport although he had never lived there. The Vietnamese caught him within hours of him being there having paid a child pimp to get young kids. His first call was to the Australian Embassy who said not our problem. When he gets out in a few years he can not return to Australia and will be deported from Vietnam.
The easy way to fix this would be to say if you must not have more than one National passport.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Was Malcolm Roberts born In Iran?
Why won't he show his birth certificate?
Is he a Muslim?
Did he enter Parliament as a non Australian that is, as a Brit?
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Libs taking this one to the High Court. No surprise because of their slim margin in the House of Reps.
If Joyce is turfed would it mean a by-election? |
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