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Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | mattmc33 wrote: |
He’s never going to be a guy that is able to consistently develop his playing group, to take guys with weaknesses and turn those weaknesses into strengths.
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Maybe it's beyond the scope of this forum, but I'm really interested in how a coach could turn weaknesses into strengths.
Take Taylor Adams as an example. I really admire his tenacity and desire to get the ball. He nearly came off second best in a ferocious contest yesterday. Yet we all know his delivery by foot is a weakness!
I reckon all the coaches and Adams himself are fully aware of this. How could you develop his foot skills? Design a special training drill for him that he practices again and again after the main training session?
I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this question. Just really interested to see what can be done with players who do have obvious weaknesses. |
Paul Licuria arrived at Collingwood as a terrible kick and left a dual Copeland winner. Ask him. He’s around. I’m sure his answer will be practice.
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'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Any junior coach worth his salt will tell you it’s the early years 10 thru 15 years that players learn kicking and the ones that do start with a marked advantage over the ones that don’t
Rarely do they break the bad habits they carry into the adult game
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right
Last edited by BazBoy on Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Sure we made some errors and comments on how we have slipped over the years
Just watched Dogs for second week and if they serve up that tripe their slip
was much faster
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | mattmc33 wrote: |
He’s never going to be a guy that is able to consistently develop his playing group, to take guys with weaknesses and turn those weaknesses into strengths.
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Maybe it's beyond the scope of this forum, but I'm really interested in how a coach could turn weaknesses into strengths.
Take Taylor Adams as an example. I really admire his tenacity and desire to get the ball. He nearly came off second best in a ferocious contest yesterday. Yet we all know his delivery by foot is a weakness!
I reckon all the coaches and Adams himself are fully aware of this. How could you develop his foot skills? Design a special training drill for him that he practices again and again after the main training session?
I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this question. Just really interested to see what can be done with players who do have obvious weaknesses. |
I have heard repeatedly that Taylor Adams is one of the hardest workers at Collingwood. Attends more optional sessions and has turned the lights on and off more than most.
I wouldn’t underestimate the role that confidence plays in all this. He would be well aware of his failings and like a lot of people, when you start badly, the whole issue just snowballs because you put more pressure on yourself to make amends next time.
He played a couple cracking games last year when he hardly made a blue with ball in hand ( I remember the G C game was one of them )
There is still no known measurement to show confidence levels, so maybe that’s at the heart of his problem.
We should all make a note to see if he starts well and then monitor how his game unfolds. He has two poor starts to both games to date, so possibly continual poor ball use is symptomatic of how he starts the game.
Ball use aside, he is still a voice, a leader and has a bit of mongrel in him that is sadly missing from our team. With those qualities, we are just going to have to accept the good with the bad.
He won’t be getting dropped anytime soon. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Damien wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | | mattmc33 wrote: |
He’s never going to be a guy that is able to consistently develop his playing group, to take guys with weaknesses and turn those weaknesses into strengths.
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Maybe it's beyond the scope of this forum, but I'm really interested in how a coach could turn weaknesses into strengths.
Take Taylor Adams as an example. I really admire his tenacity and desire to get the ball. He nearly came off second best in a ferocious contest yesterday. Yet we all know his delivery by foot is a weakness!
I reckon all the coaches and Adams himself are fully aware of this. How could you develop his foot skills? Design a special training drill for him that he practices again and again after the main training session?
I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this question. Just really interested to see what can be done with players who do have obvious weaknesses. |
Paul Licuria arrived at Collingwood as a terrible kick and left a dual Copeland winner. Ask him. He’s around. I’m sure his answer will be practice. |
Adams was running at 75%DE yesterday. There is no problem with his technique at kicking the football. The problem is his lack of consistency with his disposal which is substandard for the elite player he should be. As above Licuria fixed up his kicking and I'm expecting Adams to do the same in time. |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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Okay.... thanks for those responses to my question about how to improve on a perceived weakness in a player.
Unfortunately Damien I wouldn't have the front to approach Paul Licuria with such a question, even if I knew how to get in contact with him.
Appreciated your reply Pies 2016. Yeah, I remember those couple of exceptional games from Adams last year and could hardly believe how effective was his disposal by foot. You mentioned how important confidence and a good start in a game can be. Makes absolute sense to me.
So, it seems that when Bucks is criticized for not developing players, no-one really knows what he should be doing, but isn't . Except Raw Hammer suggested that players should be left to thoroughly learn one particular role/position before they are switched around to play in another, which I also thought made sense. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Skids wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | | makri wrote: | | Does Broomhead have a case for an unsafe workplace?? |
That question went through my mind yesterday too - like what type of padding do they put around the posts and what is its protection factor? |
What about this one from a few years ago... very lucky he didn't do serious damage.
http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-04-18/heeney-hits-the-post-hard
The padding is only 35mm in thickness apparently.
35mm thickness is the minimum requirement.
Goal-post padding
In order to prevent injuries to players, officials and
spectators, all fixed goal and behind posts must be
padded as follows:
ƒ a minimum of 35 millimetres thick foam padding,
covered in canvas or painted;
ƒ a minimum height of 2.5 metres from the bottom
of each goal and behind post;
ƒ a suitable width to allow the padding to be fixed
around each goal and behind post; and
ƒ The padding must be securely attached around
each goal and behind post. |
Thanks for that info Skids. Interesting that the rules talk about how thick the foam should be, but not what particular density it needs to be. |
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bally12
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
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| Quote: | | There is no problem with his technique at kicking the football. The problem is his lack of consistency with his disposal which is substandard for the elite player he should be. As above Licuria fixed up his kicking and I'm expecting Adams to do the same in time. |
Sorry, I can't let this one go, because it's a poignant reflection of what is wrong wih our footy club.
Adams has a horrid kicking action. There's no disputing that. His technique is the sole reason he's such a bad kick. We've gone into the technical aspects on this forum before.
The more important question is why his technique hasn't improved, remembering that he had Buckley as coach when he was a 16yo.
It's no use bemoaning our skills in the press conferences when Tay is the perfect example of our skills problem, and Buckley has had Tay under his tutelage from a young age. Has Buckley ever accepted Tay has a bad technique? If not, that there explains our predicament: a coach who has no idea how to identify let alone teach skill improvemnt,
Is Tay's technique so ingrained in his system, that it was decided he can't change? Possibly. I disagree if that's the case, but it would be good if the club was transparent on this. Too pivate and embarrassing to discuss Tay's kicking publicly? Maybe.
What if our kicking skills are a major reason we are on the bottom (which it is)? Don't the members and supporters deserve some transparency into what they are doing about it? Are they scared for being shown up as amateurs? Do they even have a clue?
Also, as a starting midfielder in an AFL team , you'd think that he'd have a left foot right? Nope, apparently not needed at Collingwood.
Please don't think I'm picking on Tay. Tay's other attributes as a footballer are fantastic and can't be questioned.
I obviously blame the coaches..Buckley in particular. Buckley needs to take full responsibility for all facets of coaching. If he doesn't motivate, doesn't teach skills, then what does he do exactly? Teach players where to position themselves? I must admit we did look more organised defensively yesterday, and we did have a red-hot dip. Credit where cedit is due.
Does Buckley overcoach and confuse players? Do our players look confused, mechanical, lack flair, and are tentative in going forward? I think so.
Overall, I think the body of evidence is there to conclude we should have pulled the pin on Buckley last year. I'll still support the team, especially when the boys give their all like they did yesterday.
Anhyway, the ball butchering can be quite comical at times...can't complain we don't get our money's worth for the overall entertainment. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Buckley’s theory of motivation is pretty much the standard theory in leadership today. The old theory of an authority figure motivating highly-paid athletes through rousing speeches about the jumper etc is passé : these guys are not amateur footballers who need to be inspired. They are professional athletes who have already paid in sweat, physical risk, pain thresholds, alcohol bans and self-discipline by the time they even get onto the ground. They are competitive beasts already, or they would not be there. What it takes to lead and motivate people like that is not tub-thumping speeches but honest feedback (good and bad), support, reward for effort, empathy and connection, and personal commitment to their growth. I suspect Buckley has these, and it’s because of this that I think he has got results, these past few years, which are the top end of what a pretty ordinary list can achieve.
In case that sounds like fanboy stuff, I think there are grounds for real concern in other areas. His talent and list management has been very questionable, and our system and structure still looks shaky too often. Those are his flaws, to the extent they have stalled our progress.
I think we hugely overrate RfAs who have had a good game or two against us (Wells, Mayne, Karnezis, Young). As a result we have used Pollyfilla recruiting where an RSJ was needed (a Dangerfield, a Franklin, even a Dixon). As a result, we just don’t have the necessary talent. I think Buckley gets close to the best out of what we have, but it’s not nearly good enough to be in the top half of the table.
Unfortunately, after seven years as coach, that ultimately must lie at his door. I think there are green shoots in this list (Aish, Moore, Murray, Schaz, Maynard, JdG, Brown) whose progress will give me a lot of pleasure to watch. But we really should be further advanced in rejuvenation at this point.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Raw Hammer
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Location: The Gutter
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Adams's two handed ball drop is an abomination of everything that is good about kicking a proper drop punt.
It if horrific.
The fact that he hasn't changed it one bit is a blight on him and the club.
The only player who is more than effective with a God awful double handed ball drop in general play is Michael Hurley from Essendon.
Medhurst, Caracalla and Matthew Lloyd got away with it shooting at goal with perfectly still run ups. But in emerald play, on the run, around corners, under pressure? Horribly ineffective.
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Est. 2002 |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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As they discussed the round so far yesterday prior to WCE and Doggies game
St Kilda was mentioned!!
Leigh Matthews said “ Like Collingwood they are a middle of the road team”
It made me mad to be mentioned in same breath as Saints but honestly that’s what we have become
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| mgh3536 wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | Buckley isn't much of a coach but at least he knows enough not to bag his 300-gamer who will be captain under the new coach.
Langdon is the best footballer in the back six by a considerable margin. What you see as him getting beaten in the contest and coughing up goals is actually him being the only one good enough to get to the contest, time and again, generally outnumbered and usually trying to pick up the pieces for someone else who has run to the wrong spot. Have a look again at Cameron's last goal and ask yourself where the rest of the back six were that Langdon is going up in a marking contest two on one against the CHF and FF. Sometimes great footballers like Tommy are made to look ordinary because they're surrounded by guys who can't read the play and have little appetite for the contest, or are so glacial in their movement they can't get to the contest at the required speed for AFL. |
That's often my read also.
Langdon didn't have a great game in round 1 but I thought he bounced back yesterday, was good and it was a display like we became accustomed to across his first two seasons.
He can be hit and miss with his disposal still and can be exposed by the run down tackle at times so needs to be more aware but I dare say he also covers more ground than most or all of the other defenders and therefore fatigue is at play more often for him when it comes to his errors. |
tom langdon....360 metres gained in 2 games.... 3 tackles in 2 games......watch him he goes to ground far too often... not even in our best 6....70% of his possessions are uncontested.....
flatters to deceive |
It's a damning stat when you average below 10m a disposal as a defender. Generally defenders are among the highest meters gained per disposal on average as they are clearing the defensive area by the furtherest they can.
3 tackles in 2 games isn't good either but sometimes it can happen but when you look further he also has 9 ineffective tackles which means 9 times he's failed to complete the tackle. So he completes 1 in 4 tackles effectively.
On the weekend according to champion data Collingwood had 6 players finish in the top 100 players on ranking points (for that game)
Grundy Pendles Howe Trelaor Sidey & Matt Scharenberg
Week 1 Langdon ranked 352nd out of 396 players but when you consider around 30 of those players failed to finish the game or didn't play at least 55% his the ranking slipped even further down. He finished the 8th most ineffective player in round 1
Round 2 he improved to finish the 309th ranked player (out of 396) with 31 players failing to finish or play less than 55% game time.
Scharenberg finished 96th out of 396 players
Stats don't always tell the whole story granted but they do show a pattern
He's ineffective at the job he's paid to do
No matter how you try to spin it or the slant you put on it he's our worst ranked defender by a huge margin (all defenders or players who played more than 55% of the time in defence) he was our only defender not to rank inside the top 250
He's now on a run of 19 consecutive games where his ranking points have gone backwards (on a rolling 40-50 game cycle that makes up champion data rankings) that includes 2 games 2018, 11 games 2017 & his final 6 games of 2016. That's a pattern of sustained sub par performances that can't be denied |
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ROB
Joined: 13 Sep 2016
Location: Sydney
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| Raw Hammer wrote: | Tom Langdon continues to jog around with little urgency or care.
It's not just how he looks (laconic), it's seriously bizarre how an afl player just meanders around like the bong-affected recruit from the movie The Club. Just ONCE I'd like to see him sprint to a conywt with purpose. |
Concur with this assessment of him.
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Toby for President |
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ROB
Joined: 13 Sep 2016
Location: Sydney
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Interesting how Treloar's stats early on showed he handballed more than kicked this week. In my opinion, it was a direct result of the poor kicking he displayed in round 1, which was also subject of a media discussion with him. The lack of kicking confidence at one stage saw him handball to someone next to him when he had clear ground ahead of him - apart from his couple of goals which were great kicks, his confidence to kick on the run seems to be completely shot. Lets hope that can be repaired and quick. Yes - speculation of his groin problems may restrict his kicking but that so called problem did not effect the goals he kicked with snaps which could effect a groin injury.
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Toby for President |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Sadly we are short of soldiers who can mix it with strong bodies at stoppage and clearances
JDG and Greenwood fill the bill to push,shove the ball out to the likes of Adam
(Wills and Sier are simalar tough bodies)
But ball in hand with a few seconds to move it forward he still has to kick
Don’t see a solution (short term) so pain killers and clever rotations and positioning him where he does not need to run a lot
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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