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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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| David wrote: | We all know about Collective Mind's role in this, but I was looking at a puff piece newspaper article about the camp uploaded on the organisation's own website (https://collectivemind.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Mind-Over-Matters.pdf) and was interested to learn that, if I understand correctly, the specific program Betts participated in was led by the (somewhat creepily generically named) "Workplace Well Being Institute". This is their website; note the focus on things like "social justice" and "social equity": https://www.workplacewellbeing.co/
This is how the newspaper report describes the focus of the progam:
| Quote: | | Participants in this group were led through a "rite of passage" style program where they confronted and overcame "immature masculine" behaviours such as selfishness, entitlement, laziness, privilege, disconnection, lack of integrity, lack of respect and lack of discipline |
Piecing this together with Betts' descriptions of the absurd exercises that players were made to perform, I wonder if we're finally seeing the meeting point of woke Robin DiAngelo-style privilege-checking workplace programs and right-wing Jordan Peterson-style alpha masculinity woo-woo. These snake oil peddlers really are two sides of the one coin. |
Eh, I don't think they're at all similar or similarly bad. DiAngelo's stuff is pretty useless and basically exists so workplaces can say they're doing stuff and don't get sued, but is harmless. Peterson's alpha masculinity shit is not harmless, not even to himself.
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"We ain't gotta dream no more" |
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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| Uncle Jack wrote: | The other part mentioned by Eddie goes to cultural insensitivity. Having indigenous players hurling abuse at their "Uncle"- their elder, was a very big deal that seems to have been misunderstood/diminished/neglected by the team running the camp. To then be removed from the leadership group after speaking up for the hurt done to the indigenous players would be a bitter pill to swallow not only for Eddie, but for all the indigenous players.
It seems the club's way of "moving on from this issue" was to move Eddie along. |
Even ignoring the cultural stuff, I'm just genuinely unsure as to how insulting and yelling at people is supposed to help them become better players or people or whatever they were trying to achieve. It's just stupid.
I remember Akermanis mentioned that he thought this Leading Teams shit was basically workplace bullying and being generally made fun of for it, but he was 100% right.
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"We ain't gotta dream no more" |
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Telling anyone that you'll be a shit parent because you were raised by a single parent deserves a punch straight to the face every day. |
What’s more, the entire notion that this kind of "negging" is a useful psychological tool is ridiculous. It reminds me of stuff I’ve heard about the Landmark Forum (check out a documentary on them here: https://archive.org/details/VoyageDesNouveauxGourous), a kind of weekend self-help seminar where you go to basically be torn to shreds in front of your fellow participants, which supposedly makes you reconsider your life and come out a better person on the other side.
The real aim is to make the participant an emotional wreck, which in turn makes them feel like it’s an important process (if it hurts, it must be good for you). They then get you to sign up for more expensive workshops and encourage you to recruit friends and family members (just as Collective Mind effectively did by giving scripts to the players to read out to their partners and the media). Stuff like that is a pyramid scheme at best, cult at worst. No qualified, competent therapist would employ these techniques. |
Funnily enough, "negging" is also a very common tool in the "pick up artist" world and it never works there either (or more accurately, it works about 10% of the time, which convinces these idiots that they should keep doing it).
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"We ain't gotta dream no more" |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I can never understand how anyone thinks insults, bullying, nastiness will ever build anyone up.
Encouragement, honest but not nasty, feedback, building self esteem, encouraging team spirit, thars what builds people up.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| SwansWay wrote: | | That's why it angers me when posters refer to the players at Essendon as cheats...those players deserve our unreserved sympathy. |
No they don’t, only the player who had the guts to question it, does. I’ll give the younger players a pass but the senior ones should have questioned it. They knew,how could you not? Thereis only one reason for such secrecy
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | Jenkins’ testimony here: https://youtu.be/kRFr3wbZ0mE
Seems he was the main one to speak up before, during and after the camp, and was punished for it. |
I hope he wins his case
Just disgusting
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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The Age placed this paragraph below Caroline Wilson's article in today's Age
"The Age reported on the Adelaide Crows’ camp in 2020, in a story which included a number of similar allegations to those in Eddie Betts’ autobiography, as well as other claims. Collective Mind sued for defamation. In December 2021, The Age and Nine made a business decision to settle the case and issue an apology without admitting that the story was inaccurate."
It strikes me if the business people from Nine and The Age had shown the courage and confidence in their journalists in this case as they did in the Ben Roberts-Smith case less people may have been subjected to Collective Minds dangerous bullshit.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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sadly i dont thin reporters, newspapers etc will ever go hand in hand with integrity
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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skaman 
One step beyond.......
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Townsville via Melbourne
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Its ver Army 80’s style( for me), we were told nose to nose by our sergeants and corporals what they were gunna do to our mothers etc etc. It was to try and break you down and weed out the weak. It was to strike a nerve and find your achiles heel. Not to be taken seriously ( at the end of the day). Like a footy field when an opponent tries to get in your head . Once the siren sounds , its shake hands and sorry about the vitriol. No harm intended, it was heat of battle.
Now not making excuses, but this is how i was traied and trained others into releasing sensitive info etc. This was Army but not considered “ bastardisation “…. Back then. Today , however , its a totally different discussion and perspective.
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Enjoy yourself. Its later than you think! |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| skaman wrote: | Its ver Army 80’s style( for me), we were told nose to nose by our sergeants and corporals what they were gunna do to our mothers etc etc. It was to try and break you down and weed out the weak. It was to strike a nerve and find your achiles heel. Not to be taken seriously ( at the end of the day). Like a footy feel when an opponent tries to get in your head . Once the siren sounds , its shake hands and sorry about the vitriol. No harm intended, it was heat of battle.
Now not making excuses, but this is how i was traied and trained others into releasing sensitive info etc. This was Army but not considered “ bastardisation “…. Back then. Today , however , its a totally different discussion and perspective. |
....and if this happened at a football club in the 1980s, I don't think there would be the same level of outrage and disgust. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
A lot of what was just considered normal 40 years ago isn't considered acceptable now. Society has evolved.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wonka
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
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| lazzadesilva wrote: | | What'sinaname wrote: | | David wrote: | | lazzadesilva wrote: | | Where is Caroline Wilson’s pukefest on this on the front page of the Age? Oh that’s right, it’s not Collingwood 😩 |
She's gone after Ricciuto too:
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You're not doing it right David. It's a conspiracy against Collingwood. Everything is. |
No it is not a conspiracy. It’s a double standard. For example if it had been Hertier Lubumba, Wilson would have gleefully attacked Collingwood on the front page of the Age. Not a doubt. |
No, you are simply wrong, because Caroline Wilson has written about it, as she has in the past, as you can read for yourself at https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hollow-inadequate-denials-and-silence-made-a-shameful-exercise-so-much-worse-20220805-p5b7i2.html . |
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