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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I acquired the abilities over time, some came more naturally than others, but all needed to be developed and honed with some training and guidance.
A uni degree with appropriate supervised practice is one way to do it, not the only way.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| stui magpie wrote: | | John LEWIN wrote: | Stui I thought coaches taught people how to play developed their skills and decided on strategy and tactics. If you don't need qualifications to deal with anything then Freud could coach Collingwood. ...
Once again, the issue is cultural and that is a lack of respect for professional expertise. ... |
I'm assuming you are a trained health professional, who believes that you need to be one in order to do this kind of thing, which is akin to a plumber believing you need to be a plumber to change a tap washer.
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However the lack of qualifications is IMO far less of a problem than their lack of due diligence in designing and executing the program |
But performing health-related jobs, including mental-health jobs, is regulated in our society, and it typically does require formal qualifications. (That is not to say that "qualified" practitioners have never done harm. But no one seems to be suggesting that dropping the requirement for qualifications reduces such harm; perhaps the qualification requirements need to be more demanding, or perhaps the specific health specialty in which harm has occurred has gone down the wrong path.) The question is when something a club does tips over into health terrain. Changing tap washers, I believe, is not regulated, besides which people typically change their own washers, not those of strangers in return for exhorbitant amounts of money --- just as they are free to perform ill-conceived psychological experiments on themselves if they want. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Working as a health professional is regulated, and rightfully so.
Working as a consultant providing leadership or team building workshops/camps is not
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Well, of course these torture camps aren't currently regulated (by either gov. or AFL), or else they would not exist, at least in their current forms. [They simply need to avoid using protected health words, such as "psychologist".] The question is: should they be? Given that (presumably qualified) health professionals are allegedly still working to try to undo the damage done to "five or six" Adelaide players, I think the clubs have amply demonstrated that they cannot be trusted to self-regulate. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | E wrote: | | David wrote: | | E wrote: | | this thread has been resuscitated so many times its a joke. cant we let it die a slow and worthy death. Its up there with the Form Ladder as the least interesting post in Nicks history...... |
Er, I think you forgot your ongoing tedious “percentage doesn’t matter” threads. 
I agree with K. This is relevant because it says something about the way all clubs are run, including ours. As with the Essendon doping scandal, there’s a lot of dodgy stuff going on behind the scenes potentially affecting players’ physical and mental health, all for the sake of a win-at-all-costs mentality and the huge amount of money at stake nowadays. It’s not just about one club or one leadership team. |
The percentage debate is very healthy because there are people who still dispute it (meaning my work isnt over).  |
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c'mon Rudey, you know percentage doesn't matter. You were one of the first on board.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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torture camps. 
Team building consultants have been around for yonks, in different forms and guises. I've survived a number over the years.
Buyer beware.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Adelaide's apparently was. (Even restricting ourselves to physical damage, we know that Lynch became "seriously ill" and was ordered off the camp by the club doctor.)
The players weren't the buyer; their club was and they had no choice in the matter.
Even if the victim is the buyer, current-day society does not consider it okay for a naive buyer to be exploited or cheated or harmed. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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You do have the ability to fixate on things.
The club is the employer, the players are the employees, The employee does things like this with the aim to benefit employee performance. It doesn't always work out well for all but if the majority benefit and you get the desired result, it's worth the cash.
This is a case where it went south apparently. Even though several players apparently found it beneficial, it created a schism in the team between those who did and didn't.
Not the first time and won't be the last time.
BTW, I have little time for consultants in general. The definition of a consultant is someone who borrows your watch to tell you the time. Anyone who engages them without a tight brief of what they want, deserves what they get.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| I joined the conversation between you and John LEWIN, in which I think my views are more aligned with JL's than yours. I know you have a certain distaste for university qualifications, but what are your HR views on OHS issues? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Relevance and elaboration please?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Qualifications or not, charlatans and snake oil salesman have made a packet from gullible and naive football coaches and administrators, desperate for an edge on their competitors. Pop 'psychology' is big business, but can be very damaging to individuals and organisations. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Not just sporting clubs.
https://www.collectivemind.com.au/
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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maybe we should ask them whether percentage matters? Might be a better use of their time. They will probably not agree with me proving they dont know ANYTHING!
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| E wrote: | | maybe we should ask them whether percentage matters? Might be a better use of their time. They will probably not agree with me proving they dont know ANYTHING! |
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