Eurydice Dixon
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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No Shock this Turned into MAN BASHING
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I am Da Man |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I don't enjoy it either, but it's a woman that's dead
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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In honour to how quickly this tragedy was hijacked by a particular ideology, here's some more feminist wisdom to share:
"Don't tell me to be careful, tell men not to rape".
"Don't tell me to not leave keys in the car, tell thieves not to steal cars".
"Don't tell me to look both ways before crossing the road, tell cars not to hit me".
"Don't tell me to lock my front door, tell burglars not to rob homes".
"Don't tell me to be watch out in springtime, tell Magpies not to swoop". |
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Nick - Pie Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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| You're not seriously suggesting that men are mindless animals, incapableble of reason are you? |
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Nick - Pie Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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| You're not seriously saying that 'telling men not to rape' is as futile as asking magpies not to swoop? I don't think you realise just how badly you've insulted us. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | In honour to how quickly this tragedy was hijacked by a particular ideology, here's some more feminist wisdom to share:
"Don't tell me to be careful, tell men not to rape".
"Don't tell me to not leave keys in the car, tell thieves not to steal cars".
"Don't tell me to look both ways before crossing the road, tell cars not to hit me".
"Don't tell me to lock my front door, tell burglars not to rob homes".
"Don't tell me to be watch out in springtime, tell Magpies not to swoop". |
dont have daughters hey?
This is a really ridiculous post, makes no sense and is insulting to women (trivialising) and Magpies.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Two daughters: 18 and 13.
They don't conflate feminism and women. Why do you? |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | I think we should probably spend more of our resources identifying potential serious offenders and giving them the mental health and other interventions required to prevent such crimes. I don’t have particular expertise in the relevant fields but I really struggle to accept that a teenage boy who is capable of raping and murdering a girl in a park is not going to have raised a few concerns along the way. I’m happy with video surveillance etc in such places but suspect it won’t be very effective.
It certainly is a “male violence” issue, in the sense that, statistically, this was always more likely to happen to Eurydice than me. However, I’m not sure that does much more than put a practically useless label on the problem. |
I did part of my apprenticeship in a government department (started in 1982). We carried out maintenance to facilities for patients with mental health disorders, there were scores of them through the Perth mettopolitan area, I guess across the nation also.
Slowly, but surely, cost cutting forced the closure of these facilities and the patients were placed in suburbia in 'group houses'. These places had very little, if any security.
It never ceases to amaze me that it's the same people who scream we should let more, social security dependant migrants into the country AND somehow spend money on things that have been cut from the budget over the last 3 decades.
The bottom line is, we can't afford it!
The country continues to spiral deeper and deeper in to debt.... where are the resources going to come ftom?
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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I respect the point that you are making, Skids. Resources are always scarce and there is always a competition for funds. I do not pretend there is a Magic Pudding.
Perhaps it is worth clarifying that my view is that - as between investigating the crime after it's committed and reducing the risk that a crime of that kind might be perpetrated, I would prefer an increased focus on the prevention. I can't see that it's preferable to let things happen and then mop up after the event. That is a policy disaster. So, it's the balance of the expenditure that worries me.
I do not wish to be taken to suggest that if we spend enough on "prevention" these sorts of crimes won't occur - but I do take the view that, in the relative scheme of our expenditure, too little is done to identify and assist people who could go down this path.
I don't accept the point you make about migration but it is not central to this discussion in any event. Not everything is the fault of nasty foreigners. Most of our problems are of our very own making. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | Two daughters: 18 and 13.
They don't conflate feminism and women. Why do you? |
i dont, i dont give a shit about titles such as feminism, its as helpful as racist terms.
you trivialized sexual assault. you certainly cant compare it to locking your car door or getting swooped by magpies.
if you leave your front door unlocked and you get robbed, the robber is in the wrong, but your stupid, ditto stolen cars, if you have sons too, i hope you've taught them respect for others,
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Skids wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | I think we should probably spend more of our resources identifying potential serious offenders and giving them the mental health and other interventions required to prevent such crimes. I don’t have particular expertise in the relevant fields but I really struggle to accept that a teenage boy who is capable of raping and murdering a girl in a park is not going to have raised a few concerns along the way. I’m happy with video surveillance etc in such places but suspect it won’t be very effective.
It certainly is a “male violence” issue, in the sense that, statistically, this was always more likely to happen to Eurydice than me. However, I’m not sure that does much more than put a practically useless label on the problem. |
I did part of my apprenticeship in a government department (started in 1982). We carried out maintenance to facilities for patients with mental health disorders, there were scores of them through the Perth mettopolitan area, I guess across the nation also.
Slowly, but surely, cost cutting forced the closure of these facilities and the patients were placed in suburbia in 'group houses'. These places had very little, if any security.
It never ceases to amaze me that it's the same people who scream we should let more, social security dependant migrants into the country AND somehow spend money on things that have been cut from the budget over the last 3 decades.
The bottom line is, we can't afford it!
The country continues to spiral deeper and deeper in to debt.... where are the resources going to come ftom? |
The good old mental institues might not have been perfect, but the half way houses dont work either. I totally agree with you, we need to fix the problems we all ready have. so much needs to be done about mental health, and also removing the stigma attached. thats the first step.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | I respect the point that you are making, Skids. Resources are always scarce and there is always a competition for funds. I do not pretend there is a Magic Pudding.
Perhaps it is worth clarifying that my view is that - as between investigating the crime after it's committed and reducing the risk that a crime of that kind might be perpetrated, I would prefer an increased focus on the prevention. I can't see that it's preferable to let things happen and then mop up after the event. That is a policy disaster. So, it's the balance of the expenditure that worries me.
I do not wish to be taken to suggest that if we spend enough on "prevention" these sorts of crimes won't occur - but I do take the view that, in the relative scheme of our expenditure, too little is done to identify and assist people who could go down this path.
I don't accept the point you make about migration but it is not central to this discussion in any event. Not everything is the fault of nasty foreigners. Most of our problems are of our very own making. |
absolutely, but how?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | I respect the point that you are making, Skids. Resources are always scarce and there is always a competition for funds. I do not pretend there is a Magic Pudding.
Perhaps it is worth clarifying that my view is that - as between investigating the crime after it's committed and reducing the risk that a crime of that kind might be perpetrated, I would prefer an increased focus on the prevention. I can't see that it's preferable to let things happen and then mop up after the event. That is a policy disaster. So, it's the balance of the expenditure that worries me.
I do not wish to be taken to suggest that if we spend enough on "prevention" these sorts of crimes won't occur - but I do take the view that, in the relative scheme of our expenditure, too little is done to identify and assist people who could go down this path.
I don't accept the point you make about migration but it is not central to this discussion in any event. Not everything is the fault of nasty foreigners. Most of our problems are of our very own making. |
Well said, P4S.
TP, there are many such approaches. One would be what I suggested a few pages back, which is a more engaged mental health system wherein all people, young or old, are encouraged to attend psychologists (including sex therapists) in the way that we think of going to the GP for a check-up. Would it cost a lot of public money? You bet. Would it keep at least some potential offenders on the straight and narrow and save victims from harm? Undoubtedly.
More specifically (and not necessarily relevant to this case, but the concept could be applied more broadly), I’ve long advocated for a framework through which paedophiles can access preventative counselling, involving anonymous hotlines (much like Lifeline etc.) and specialised therapy. The same could go for all people with troubling sexual urges, including the desire to hunt down and rape strangers, and other kinds of sexual dysfunction that leads to crimes like these. True, not everybody would seek out such services, but not everybody needs to for it to be worth implementing. Programs like these have been successfully trialled overseas, and many in the mental health community support the idea, so why aren’t we calling for the implementation of such a system right now? How much of a priority do we want to make reducing rape, sexual assault, child abuse and so on?
We don’t know a lot about the rapist in this case, but I think it’s safe to presume that, mental illness or no mental illness, autism or no autism, he was in a dark place. Happy, healthy, well-adjusted people simply don’t do things like this; violence of this kind invariably comes from a place of pain (and all of those who would say “**** him, who cares” are part of the problem). Wherever his anger, shame and/or lack of self-control came from, maybe it could have been dealt with professionally. Psychology is no magic bullet, but there was surely a point at which he could have gone in a different direction, and at which point a life could have been saved. Because not all people have a burning desire to rape (in a given moment or generally), and not all people with such a desire act on it. It’s in finding those crossroads and fortifying them that we’ll start to reduce this problem.
We live in a society that stigmatises mental illness, that stigmatises sexual deviance and that stigmatises sex as a whole. In such a society, many will not seek help until it’s too late. That’s a paradigm that’s left a fair trail of carnage in its wake.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ I think that psychological help is available to such people now, via the GP system. If additional confidentiality were to be required to encourage people to seek help, that is also worth considering. I suspect that attempts to head this stuff off at the individual level, however, are unlikely to make much difference. It was not common once. Now, relatively, it is. Until we ask why, and face some uncomfortable possibilities, it is unlikely to reduce.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Skids wrote: | It never ceases to amaze me that it's the same people who scream we should let more, social security dependant migrants into the country AND somehow spend money on things that have been cut from the budget over the last 3 decades.
The bottom line is, we can't afford it!
The country continues to spiral deeper and deeper in to debt.... where are the resources going to come ftom? |
Apparently not from the surplus produced by hard-working, hard-studying immigrants and their families.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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