Eurydice Dixon
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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The victim-blaming thing does often seem like a straw-man, I agree. Its not victim-blaming to tell people how to protect themselves (whatever the other rights and wrongs of that might be).
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Nick - Pie Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
Why do people who know it's wrong to lie, steal and kill still do it? |
Because the rewards outweigh the risk.
Everyone does it. The difference is only how far they're prepared to go. Everyone's happy to speed or steal grapes from a supermarket, but it takes a truly special sort of asshole to steal a car or assault a person. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Correct. Risk v Reward drives most human behaviour in different guises and names.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Amazing how old fashioned common sense often gets confused with victim blaming.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Its not really confusion. Its deliberate misrepresentation with a view to acquiring power over others (in this case men) by demonising them.
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Oh God, I just read Dandrews PR vote-hunting Facebook post. Is there no limit to the grovelling insincerity and meaningless platitudes of the modern politician ? The poor girl is barely cold before hes mining her death for the female vote. |
Ahem. A problem being in Oxford or overseas is you're a fair way from the action. As Andrews when interviewed made that media comment he also praised & unequivocally defended the chief of police's comments which held the view regarding women looking out for their saftey etc..
I think you once (indeed more than once) said context is everything or words to that effect. The problem with reading online is that one can miss the context.
Andrews is 100% correct about his comments which is not mutually exclusive of the notion of taking safety precautions.
The problem in saying the latter too soon post the vile rape and murder of the young woman does invite notions of blaming the victim.
It is always both and more, however talking about safety immiedately after the culprit was found risks the notion of blaming the young woman without intentionally wanting to do so.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ WPT, I must lack some context, as I do not completely understand what your post is about.
My objection was to Dandrews post on Facebook, below. An essay in the vacuity of identity politics, and the inability to think in terms of individual responsibility. I understand that this was a creepy response to the polices very sensible suggestion that women need to be vigilant about their safety. Whatever else he said around this, it stands as a testament to the politicians desire to say everything and nothing in the context of a foul murder.
".......Eurydice Dixon was 22 years old. She was an aspiring comedian. Smart, funny. She lived in the inner north. Surrounded by friends.
She had a phone.
She was using it: "I'm almost home safe."
She was keeping an eye on her surroundings. Looking out for herself. Being responsible. Doing everything we expect.
But Eurydice did not make it home safe.
In a few days, women across Melbourne will gather in Princes Park for a vigil of her life.
And they will do so firm in the knowledge that Eurydice died because of her attacker's decisions not because of her own.
They're right. And we need to accept that fact, too.
We'll never change a thing until we do.
We'll never change this culture of violence against women. All women.
We'll never change the fact that one woman in this country dies every week at the hands of a partner or former partner someone they loved, in the safety of their own home.
We'll keep asking "Why didn't she leave him?" instead of asking "Why did he hurt her?"
We'll keep asking "Why was she alone in the dark?" instead of asking "Why was he?"
We'll keep ignoring the real problem, instead of actually fixing it.
So our message to Victorian women is this:
Stay home. Or don't.
Go out with friends at night. Or don't.
Go about your day exactly as you intend, on your terms.
Because women don't need to change their behaviour.
Men do.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| It's very sad that we have people in our society that will do such horrific crimes. We are going to have a mass vigil so everyone feels good and thinks they may achieve something. Reminds me of Americans have prayers after a mass shooting. I noticed the Lawyer has already gone with some bullshit mental disorder as a defence. Amazing with such a disorder he handed himself into Police. I have never been one for the death penalty but extermination is starting to look very appropriate now. Not for retribution but for eradication we need to remove that he has any chance of producing offspring. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ WPT, I must lack some context, as I do not completely understand what your post is about.
My objection was to Dandrews post on Facebook, below. An essay in the vacuity of identity politics, and the inability to think in terms of individual responsibility. I understand that this was a creepy response to the polices very sensible suggestion that women need to be vigilant about their safety. Whatever else he said around this, it stands as a testament to the politicians desire to say everything and nothing in the context of a foul murder.
".......Eurydice Dixon was 22 years old. She was an aspiring comedian. Smart, funny. She lived in the inner north. Surrounded by friends.
She had a phone.
She was using it: "I'm almost home safe."
She was keeping an eye on her surroundings. Looking out for herself. Being responsible. Doing everything we expect.
But Eurydice did not make it home safe.
In a few days, women across Melbourne will gather in Princes Park for a vigil of her life.
And they will do so firm in the knowledge that Eurydice died because of her attacker's decisions not because of her own.
They're right. And we need to accept that fact, too.
We'll never change a thing until we do.
We'll never change this culture of violence against women. All women.
We'll never change the fact that one woman in this country dies every week at the hands of a partner or former partner someone they loved, in the safety of their own home.
We'll keep asking "Why didn't she leave him?" instead of asking "Why did he hurt her?"
We'll keep asking "Why was she alone in the dark?" instead of asking "Why was he?"
We'll keep ignoring the real problem, instead of actually fixing it.
So our message to Victorian women is this:
Stay home. Or don't.
Go out with friends at night. Or don't.
Go about your day exactly as you intend, on your terms.
Because women don't need to change their behaviour.
Men do. |
Why do you object to this? Its one hundred percent spot on.
Read the post by Luvdids, every woman I know has felt that way at some point and WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TOO.
And before the men get beat up too, and sometimes its a woman doing it yes I know, but that does not change the fact that this is true. One thing does not negate the other.
Doesnt mean Im going to vote for him though, Ill vote for the guy who locks this poor unfortunate selfish $$%^%%$ arsehole up for life!
Dont tell your daughters how to behave around rapists, tell your sons not to be one. But that aint happening anytime soon. So meanwhile Ill drive my two girls crazy nagging them to be careful over and over and over.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Ok maybe because you think its just a political statement that means nothing?
Sorry Im having a week from hell! I could have missed context here, at least he didnt say trust in the lord!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Culprit wrote: | | It's very sad that we have people in our society that will do such horrific crimes. We are going to have a mass vigil so everyone feels good and thinks they may achieve something. Reminds me of Americans have prayers after a mass shooting. I noticed the Lawyer has already gone with some bullshit mental disorder as a defence. Amazing with such a disorder he handed himself into Police. I have never been one for the death penalty but extermination is starting to look very appropriate now. Not for retribution but for eradication we need to remove that he has any chance of producing offspring. |
Youd never get enough support for the death penalty here, just lock him up for life, in saying that we need to look at the Sci-fi movies and find a way to make the prison system more productive, in terms of rehabilitation and also, getting the lifers to lead a productive self supported life behind bars. Who makes number plates now?!
I did notice a big shift in the bumper stickers in the US, not so much support for god fixing the shooting problem.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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There really are some tasteless cretins in the world.
Seems overnight some idiot defaced the memorial to Eurydice in Princes Park by painting a large "lewd symbol" on the grass next to the flowers.
Firemen had to be called in to wash it off.
Really?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | Ok maybe because you think its just a political statement that means nothing?
Sorry Im having a week from hell! I could have missed context here, at least he didnt say trust in the lord! |
Its because it says everything and nothing. As far as I am aware, the vast majority of men had nothing to do with this hideous crime, their attitudes do not support it, and they are as appalled by it as women are. So how do men need to change ? Some men behave horribly, violently, and some are misogynists. Most of us, however, have wives and daughters and friends and Co-workers who are female, and we consider them every bit as human and worthy as any man. Stop using this tragedy to conduct your rancid identity politics, Dan.
And what did this idiot say in this arm-waving masterpiece ? It amounts to women should do whatever you like. Well, any of us who have daughters -and those that dont -know that in the increasingly lawless society over which he presides, there are significant risks involved in walking through public spaces, alone, in the dark, late at night. It takes a special kind of obtuseness to consider that statement victim blaming. That poor girl made a mistake with her personal safety, just as most of us have from time to time, especially when we were young. She got unlucky, that day. But for a politician to suggest that people should not pay attention to risks because men have to change is past puerile.
Some men do have to change, no doubt : but saying it like that makes zero difference. Its just a way of signalling that youre right on with this. Meanwhile, one man needs to be put on trial and if found guilty, subjected to the kind of punishment which makes it very clear to the men that need to change that they will receive the sternest rigor of the law, swiftly enacted, without a lot of excuse-making and extenuation on their behalf.
Once, this crime would have resulted in execution within a reasonable period after the act, and a powerful signal would be sent to all those who might consider such things fair game. Now, we will get a lot of exculpatory nonsense about his mental state, suggesting to the predators that these things are not really their fault. Because it has had so much public emotion invested in it, the sentence here will probably be long, but most of the men who assault women know that the courts do not treat it all that seriously in most cases. Even for the worst, first-degree murder (as they call it in the US), youll be out in about 15 years or so if they catch you, mate. And you can probably bargain it down below that if you have a ghost of an excuse. Your victim has no chance of parole, of course.
Due process of law followed by impassive, retributive justice for an unspeakable act : thats what id like to hear from a politician, rather than this flyblown blancmange of undergraduate gender studies. That would express more clearly than any stinking political words how our society values a womans life.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | There really are some tasteless cretins in the world.
Seems overnight some idiot defaced the memorial to Eurydice in Princes Park by painting a large "lewd symbol" on the grass next to the flowers.
Firemen had to be called in to wash it off.
Really? |
Without context it is hard to be sure, but I would hazard a guess that the cretin who did this was motivated by the way this dreadful tragedy has been turned into a divisive spectacle of identity politics, rather than seen as a dreadful crime by a man. If you sow division, you get anger and hatred where there should be unity and sorrow.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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