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ACBoard & Tassie Libs: how low can you go?

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:00 pm
Post subject: ACBoard & Tassie Libs: how low can you go?Reply with quote

"...What a disgrace.

Cricket Australia released a statement claiming that it respects an individual's right to their opinion. However, it also expects that employees will refrain from making offensive comments that contravene the organisations policies.

I added the emphasis, because CA demonstrably does not respect anybodys right to voice any opinion that might make things a little awkward in the members pavilion the next time some freeloading politician is there hoovering up the triangle sandwiches and complimentary fairy cakes...."


https://www.smh.com.au/national/just-not-cricket-the-hypocrisy-behind-angela-williamson-s-sacking-20180730-p4zui9.html

Couldn't have said it better myself. Gawd I love John Birmingham.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/sacked-cricket-australia-staffer-angela-williamson-breaks-down-in-tv-interview/news-story/ce37bbb93ea6b9a3c7517ffa00162b18


Hodgman Junior is making his father look good; the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

ACB have seriously f*cked up here bigtime.
The State Libs look like they've acted illegally.
Friggin' idiots.

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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:13 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarrassing and (probably) unlawful.
You, of course, for consistencies sake will support the following people who have been sacked, or face dismissal, for voicing their opinions. Or are only "correct" opinions worth defending?

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/god-made-us-male-and-female-doctor-sacked-for-saying-people-cannot-choose-their-gender/news-story/5c428000dd8b92e5153fb346559a4be4
https://www.spectator.com.au/2018/08/going-the-full-kafka-on-free-speech/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-07/defence-force-reservist-sacked-for-anti-gay-comments-wins-case/7005966
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-20/fair-work-to-probe-sacking-over-same-sex-marriage-survey/8964558
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Embarrassing and (probably) unlawful.
You, of course, for consistencies sake will support the following people who .....


Stop being a cleverdick. First deal with this issue not some other blurring and diversion that Muggers was alluding to earlier in another thread. Sheesh. The post is about the ACB and The Tasmanian Libs. This is what this thread is about.

Now if you want to post about whataboutery then be my guest & I'm happy to respond there. Otherwise be like hockey player and get the puck out of this thread with your whataboutery.

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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:58 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

So that's a "no" then.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:04 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

thesoretoothsayer wrote:
So that's a "no" then.


Try reading what I posted and stop lying or inventing stuff.

I specifically noted:

"...Now if you want to post about whataboutery then be my guest & I'm happy to respond there...."

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:15 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting one.

The fact that the tweet was in regard to abortion rights, along with the inference that she may or may not have had an abortion is the main headline in this case, but is actually totally irrelevant.

This link contains a copy of the letter sent to her by CA,

https://www.smh.com.au/national/cricket-australia-sacks-worker-over-series-of-tweets-about-abortion-20180729-p4zuar.html

Now, her role was "Public Policy and Government Relations Manager", a role that would require you to have a good working relationships with governments. As such, publicly publishing criticism of government decisions is a pretty dumb thing to do.

Secondly, CA referred to 2 other tweets she had sent being critical. It's not clear whether she had previous warnings, but I doubt it as she should have referred to them if she had.

Lastly, Cricket Tasmania as a result of her tweet, advised CA that they had lost faith in her ability to do her job, hence she was being terminated. Essentially, they're saying the employee/employer relationship has been damaged by her.

Now, I'm not familiar with Tassies workplace laws so I'll assume she's going to unfair dismissal under the federal laws.

What's interesting is that she seems to have been terminated without prior warnings, but paid her notice, which can actually undermine CA's case. If you think that the behaviour is so serious that you need to terminate immediately, that's normally considered a "Summary Dismissal" and notice isn't paid. A normal termination, with notice, is the result of repeated poor behaviour and prior warnings.

So in terminating her summarily without warnings, but paying notice, they make their own case more difficult.

The maximum amount she can get at Fair Work is 6 months pay. She will argue for her job back but that's unlikely. Plus, her Ambulance chasers will want a cash payment that they can dig their hooks into.

Given the publicity, I predict a negotiated settlement at conciliation of less than 6 months pay and a privacy agreement preventing her from speaking about it.

The insinuation that someone accessed her medical record is a serious one and should result in termination of employment if true, but I find it unlikely as access to clinical systems is pretty tightly restricted to clinicians and not available to politicians, political staffers or other public servants.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:20 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive already been arguing this case on Facebook over the past couple of days, but suffice it to say I think its a disgrace and Im glad people are starting to wake up to this sort of thing. This piece is spot on:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/cricket-australia-s-treatment-of-an-employee-is-a-warning-to-us-all-20180730-p4zufy.html

Quote:
While we wait for CA to be whacked all over the park for what I hope will be a large sum of money, its now the time for us to consider what we should do to push back against employers looking for ways to monitor us, to increase surveillance, to discipline and punish.

Its also a time for us all to ensure that we have the highest boundaries we can possibly have between our working lives and our private lives. Employers will soon discover that hurts them far more than it hurts us. This insidious intrusion of companies into the private lives of their employees must stop.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:21 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^

The disgrace is that she was stupid enough to publicly criticise a body she was supposed to work closely with and think she could get away with it.

Do you also think the Liberal Staffer caught criticising opponents of the government should have not "resigned"?

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:15 pm
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Well, if she did it on her own account, posted through her own computer, on her own time, it feels like CA is on shaky ground, especially if they gave no warnings. Who in the government did she have to deal with for her job? Just the sports minister (and not e.g. the health minister)?
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:16 pm
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Well that's okay. did it on her own account posted her own computer on her own time it feels like CA is on shaky ground if they gave no warnings has a she did it on.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:34 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

K wrote:
Well, if she did it on her own account, posted through her own computer, on her own time, it feels like CA is on shaky ground, especially if they gave no warnings. Who in the government did she have to deal with for her job? Just the sports minister (and not e.g. the health minister)?


Who's computer and time she did it on is irrelevant.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:45 pm
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Well, if she did it at work on a work computer, then just because it's not work, even boringly safe content could get her into trouble.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:00 pm
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Most workplaces allow for limited personal use including accessing social media. Where and how she sent the tweet won't even come into discussions, it's all about the content, it's impact and whether the decision to terminate her was harsh, unjust or unreasonable.

Criticising an organisation that you're employed to manage a relationship with, using your own name on social media so it clearly identifies you, is dead set stupid.

Given it was the 3rd time she'd done it recently shows it wasn't just a momentary lapse of judgement.

I personally would have recommended a first and final warning rather than termination (based on the info in the media), but if CA was convinced she'd burnt bridges and her continuing in that role was untenable, then you go with termination and prepare to negotiate a settlement.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:36 pm
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So you mean they'd just cut their losses, even if they felt they may have to wear a bit of pain on the legal front? Interesting. (Re. the social media access, I'd have assumed it's totally fine in your lunch break, but you'd be expected to be "working" otherwise, even if you're really just staring blankly at the ceiling.)

P4S, any thoughts?
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:57 pm
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watt price tully wrote:
thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Embarrassing and (probably) unlawful.
You, of course, for consistencies sake will support the following people who .....


Stop being a cleverdick. First deal with this issue not some other blurring and diversion that Muggers was alluding to earlier in another thread. Sheesh. The post is about the ACB and The Tasmanian Libs. This is what this thread is about.

Now if you want to post about whataboutery then be my guest & I'm happy to respond there. Otherwise be like hockey player and get the puck out of this thread with your whataboutery.


Actually whataboutery is often revealing. People who espouse a principle in one case should apply that principle in other reasonably comparable cases. STS has a right to ask whether you see a different principle at stake in the instances he cited, as you seem so exultantly exercised over this one.

I think I fall somewhere between Stui and David on this. If she has a critical relationship with the government as part of her work, and this compromises that very badly, her role may become untenable. I am not sure the government has a right to get too fluffed up about her views on their abortion policy as a private citizen, but the language used is pretty lurid and confrontational, given her position.

If you have to negotiate with another party as part of your job, its really not a great idea to be abusive toward them in public. The language and tone matter perhaps more than the substance, and hers is immature. I could be wrong, but judging from her various public utterances, I suspect she is as flaky as seven-day old sunburn, that they want to get shot of her however they can, and they hoped to avoid a payout. Most payouts go to flaky and difficult people rather than the good workers, in our wonderful employee relations system.

On another (related) note, Ill probably be alone in this, but it is really regrettable that a once-great public newspaper has descended to the point where it considers shit show and arsehat to be journalism. Th distinction between formal/public and informal English, like standards of dress and conduct at public events, are worth preserving. Perhaps casual, lazy profanity like this has one positive of signalling that this is not professional journalism, but a biased rant. It reads a bit like a low quality VPT post. In the SMH.

The shabbiness and crudity of our public culture underpins a lot of the disrespect that flows between us nowadays. I am in Portugal (beautiful Lisbon) this week, and reminded how the Latin cultures still maintain an everyday culture of politeness, style and consideration that we have lost.

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Last edited by Mugwump on Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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