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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| It took them 74 years to declare their leadership "vacant"? I guess electing Dutton to the position (when it happens, as it almost certainly now will) will be a similar, albeit indirect, statement. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Turnbull is dead man walking. As we've seen previously, we know how this will end.
Gillard survived a leadership spill in February 2012 and March 2013, but was ousted in June 2013. Abbott survived a leadership in February 2015, but was ousted in September 2015 and the same thing will happen to Turnbull. It's just a matter of when, but I'm certain he won't be leading the party when the next federal election is held.
I wouldn't blame Shorten for grinning like a cheshire cat today. He can see the prime ministership waiting for him now.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Wokko wrote: | | Turnbull is despised by the Conservative right, I know a few planning a scorched Earth vote for Shorten just to get rid of Turnbull. Still think Dutton would be better off waiting until the election and becoming Opposition Leader. |
I'm certainly in the camp of never voting Liberal again until Turnbull is ousted and snakes like Bishop and Pyne are rid of from the party.
Most of those who have abandoned the Liberals will likely vote Australian Conservatives, One Nation or Liberal Democrats.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| David wrote: | | ^ And I'm kind of fine with that. I supported him in the initial leadership contest with Shorten, and have never liked Bill much, but honestly Albo just seems like more of the same brain-numbing robotic Labor leadership, and really can't see what he brings to the table. I'm okay with the idea of Shorten being PM now. |
Shorten is popular with the party room, but ordinary party members prefer Albanese.
I think if Albo was installed as Labor leader, they'd win in a landslide.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Skids wrote: | Turnbull, Dutton, Shorten etc etc... they're all gutless maggots!
We need a Trumpinator kinda guy... but ...... we got shit. |
We have no competent leaders coming through, Skids.
A massive leadership vacuum is engulfing Canberra at the moment.
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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What bothers me the most is that no-one, in either of the major parties, has any long-term vision for the country. It's all about retaining power.
I would have never voted for him, but it would have been a refreshing change to have a moderate, efficient, innovative, economically sound Liberal government in power that didn't, say, run concentration camps on Pacific islands – they would have been capitalist pricks and been screwed up in any number of other ways, and I would have been fundamentally philosophically opposed to them, but they would have been something. Could Turnbull have been that prime minister? I don't know, but it seems like the conditions are pretty difficult for any politician planning beyond the 24-hour news cycle and the next focus group. This country's just stuck in purgatory at the moment, and whoever's in power, it's going to just be more treading water and more backroom intrigues.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Abbott and his little band of gollum's have just shot the LNP in the stomach. |
Turnbull and his cronies shot the LNP in the stomach when they knifed a sitting Prime Minister three years ago, essentially making them indistinguishable from the previous Labor (Rudd/Gillard/Rudd) governments. I never liked Rudd, but I thought what Gillard did to him was a disgrace as well and there was something satisfying about seeing Rudd dish out revenge against her.
Turnbull crapped on his base and alienated many voters of the party, and ostracised the conservative factions of his party to essentially lead a Labor-lite government. He even declared that the Liberal Party was "NEVER" a conservative party which reinforced the growing schism within the party. Menzies would be rolling his grave to see what Turnbull has done to the party.
Turnbull tried to get pre-selection with Labor years ago and wanted to become Kim Beazley's shadow finance minister during Howard's second term (1998-2001), but was turned away and later jumped ship with the Liberals. He belongs in the right wing factions of the Labor Party than in the Liberal Party. Most party supporters can see this and are therefore disillusioned to have him leading the party.
I can't wait to see him ousted.
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| David wrote: | What bothers me the most is that no-one, in either of the major parties, has any long-term vision for the country. It's all about retaining power.
I would have never voted for him, but it would have been a refreshing change to have a moderate, efficient, innovative, economically sound Liberal government in power that didn't, say, run concentration camps on Pacific islands – they would have been capitalist pricks and been screwed up in any number of other ways, and I would have been fundamentally philosophically opposed to them, but they would have been [i]something[/i]. Could Turnbull have been that prime minister? I don't know, but it seems like the conditions are pretty difficult for any politician planning beyond the 24-hour news cycle and the next focus group. This country's just stuck in purgatory at the moment, and whoever's in power, it's going to just be more treading water and more backroom intrigues. |
It's possible. |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| David wrote: | What bothers me the most is that no-one, in either of the major parties, has any long-term vision for the country. It's all about retaining power.
I would have never voted for him, but it would have been a refreshing change to have a moderate, efficient, innovative, economically sound Liberal government in power that didn't, say, run concentration camps on Pacific islands – they would have been capitalist pricks and been screwed up in any number of other ways, and I would have been fundamentally philosophically opposed to them, but they would have been something. Could Turnbull have been that prime minister? I don't know, but it seems like the conditions are pretty difficult for any politician planning beyond the 24-hour news cycle and the next focus group. This country's just stuck in purgatory at the moment, and whoever's in power, it's going to just be more treading water and more backroom intrigues. |
We have vastly different political views, but I agree that the country is lacking any long-term vision and competent leaders. These days, it seems like leaders of both parties are only worried about the polls rather than carrying out their agenda. It feels like we've witnessed a wasted decade where little progress has been made on issues that matter to the electorate.
I think the rise of social media has certainly made things difficult for leaders to implement their policy agenda. The likes of Hawke, Keating and Howard never had intense 24/7 scrutiny the way modern leaders do. Since Howard was ousted, we haven't had a competent leader from either side of the political spectrum and that's worrying for the two main parties because more voters will defect to alternative parties from either the left or right.
Australian politics hasn't had this level of political instability in decades (since the late 60s and early 70s).
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Not sure if I heard correctly, but is there a possibility that another leadership spill could occur on Thursday?
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Last edited by Jezza on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ That has been discussed. Either then or (more likely, I think) second week of September when Parliament resumes. Wouldn't be surprised if Dutton wants some time to make sure he has the numbers.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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I think you're right about September being a more realistic timeframe.
Would coincide closely with the 3rd anniversary since Turnbull knifed Abbott.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | What bothers me the most is that no-one, in either of the major parties, has any long-term vision for the country. It's all about retaining power.
I would have never voted for him, but it would have been a refreshing change to have a moderate, efficient, innovative, economically sound Liberal government in power that didn't, say, run concentration camps on Pacific islands – they would have been capitalist pricks and been screwed up in any number of other ways, and I would have been fundamentally philosophically opposed to them, but they would have been something. Could Turnbull have been that prime minister? I don't know, but it seems like the conditions are pretty difficult for any politician planning beyond the 24-hour news cycle and the next focus group. This country's just stuck in purgatory at the moment, and whoever's in power, it's going to just be more treading water and more backroom intrigues. |
My take is that the current system doesn't allow for anyone with any vision, it's all about being populist. Even if you had a leader with vision, the rank and file MP just wants to get re-elected and any vision that jeopardises that is hard to sell.
I personally think being fundamentally philosophically opposed to either party is silly as there's far call difference between them anymore, despite historical roots. I vote for whichever party and leadership I think will do the best job in the current circumstances. With a choice between Dutton and Shorten, I may not vote.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Jezza wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Abbott and his little band of gollum's have just shot the LNP in the stomach. |
Turnbull and his cronies shot the LNP in the stomach when they knifed a sitting Prime Minister three years ago, essentially making them indistinguishable from the previous Labor (Rudd/Gillard/Rudd) governments. I never liked Rudd, but I thought what Gillard did to him was a disgrace as well and there was something satisfying about seeing Rudd dish out revenge against her.
Turnbull crapped on his base and alienated many voters of the party, and ostracised the conservative factions of his party to essentially lead a Labor-lite government. He even declared that the Liberal Party was "NEVER" a conservative party which reinforced the growing schism within the party. Menzies would be rolling his grave to see what Turnbull has done to the party.
Turnbull tried to get pre-selection with Labor years ago and wanted to become Kim Beazley's shadow finance minister during Howard's second term (1998-2001), but was turned away and later jumped ship with the Liberals. He belongs in the right wing factions of the Labor Party than in the Liberal Party. Most party supporters can see this and are therefore disillusioned to have him leading the party.
I can't wait to see him ousted. |
Despite labels, I probably sit in between you and David. I agree with you on some things and him on others. Abbott had to go and I was glad to see Turnbull get a chance, but Abbott and his cronies never let him lead.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Number of PMs in each decade since Federation:
1900s = 7
1910s = 5
1920s = 3
1930s = 4
1940s = 6
1950s = 1
1960s = 4
1970s = 4
1980s = 2
1990s = 3
2000s = 2
2010s = 5 (could be 7 if Dutton ousts Turnbull and Shorten is elected next year)
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