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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Because we have the greatest culture and team spirit of any club, which is what gets us into Grand finals, even without necessarily the best team. |
I think this is close to the real reason. So many times we have miraculously made it to GF's without having the best team. I think, this year is another example of this phenomenon. No one expected us to be in a GF this year. We got to it prematurely, before we were supposed to. Many of our players were just a shade too young., Imagine what JDG, JS, Bear,Grundy, AT, Brayden Maynard, will be like with another preseason behind them.
While Cox is not comparitively young chronologically, his experience was. In the Finals series, there was a definite qualitative leap in his knowledge and understanding of the game, that he now takes with him into next year.In the pressure and frenzy of a GF, the better team physically and experience wise generally will win, hence explaining why we get there frequently but don't have a high win ratio.
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Free Julian Assange!!
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | Because we have the greatest culture and team spirit of any club, which is what gets us into Grand finals, even without necessarily the best team. |
I think this is close to the real reason. So many times we have miraculously made it to GF's without having the best team. I think, this year is another example of this phenomenon. No one expected us to be in a GF this year. We got to it prematurely, before we were supposed to. Many of our players were just a shade too young., Imagine what JDG, JS, Bear,Grundy, AT, Brayden Maynard, will be like with another preseason behind them.
While Cox is not comparitively young chronologically, his experience was. In the Finals series, there was a definite qualitative leap in his knowledge and understanding of the game, that he now takes with him into next year.In the pressure and frenzy of a GF, the better team physically and experience wise generally will win, hence explaining why we get there frequently but don't have a high win ratio. |
You may have actually hit on the kernel here.
It would be interesting to see if our team was younger and substantially less experienced than our opponents, in our GF losses.
And how this profile compares to our winning teams.
I would then compare the later with the recent profile of HAW, GEEL GF winning sides. |
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The Horn
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Location: Sudetenland
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | ...and favourites the second time we played Brisbane... |
I never understood why we were favourites against Brisbane in '03. Yes, we squeaked past them in the Qualifying Final, but they belted us at the 'G in Round 19 that year. We had to play at our absolute best to get anywhere near them. I remember watching the Lions knock over Sydney in their Prelim and just getting this huge sense of dread. That only grew when we lost Rocca for the Granny (and he was replaced by Tristen Walker...).
I'm not a pessimist, but I knew we were going to cop a flogging in the '03 Grand Final.
This year, I looked back at our game against the Weagles in Round 17 and thought they could really trouble us in the Grand Final (the only team I thought could actually beat us in the finals series).
I knew we'd beat Richmond; they got way too far up their own backsides, started believing all the press that they were certainties to go back-to-back. Most overrated premiership team in living memory. Staggers me that they won a flag with that side (3 or 4 A-grade players and a bunch of hacks).
I thought we were a genuine 50/50 prospect in this year's Granny. The Grand Final ended up being similar to Round 17, in that we kicked a bunch of goals at the start of the match, then the Weagles came to life and ran over the top of us. They beat us a lot more comfortably in Round 17. We hung on for dear life in the big one, but we let them play their style of game for too long of a period to actually win.
That disgraceful non-free kick for Maynard didn't help, but I wouldn't blame that exclusively. We had our chances.
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President of the Fatui Ataata Fan Club.
Last edited by The Horn on Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:44 am; edited 2 times in total |
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The Horn
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Location: Sudetenland
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[Double post]
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President of the Fatui Ataata Fan Club. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I hope nobody was hurt. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| The Horn wrote: | ...
I knew we'd beat Richmond; they got way too far up their own backsides, started believing all the press that they were certainties to go back-to-back. Most overrated premiership team in living memory. Staggers me that they won a flag with that side (3 or 4 A-grade players and a bunch of hacks).
... |
It scares me to think that that rubbish team was two games away from going back-to-back. It shows the low level of the competition the last few years. |
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Banksy
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | Something sadly and eerily similar to another team I follow, in another sport. Italian club Juventus, who are a national giant, the most supported club in Italy and also wear the black and white. In 9 title appearances in European cup - Champions League since 1958, they have won only 2 titles. Tell me that isn't freaky! 
This isn't just a Collingwood phenomenon. Is it a black and white thing 
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Is not a black & white thing - Port Adelaide in the SANFL have won 36 premierships and have been Runners up 37 times
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| ^ 50% is about right. 33% is too low. |
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blackandwhite4life 
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Location: sydney
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Play the grand finals in October......direct all our energy towards achieving this change.
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Hearing the 'Black & White Army' roar is the greatest sound in the world. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| ^ I assumed it was (because of the pre-final bye), until realizing quite late that it wasn't. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Post subject: Re: Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand fi | |
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| RudeBoy wrote: | ...
... It's like bitching about roulette when 10 red numbers come up in a row. Surely, it should have been 5 red and 5 black? The fact is, what has happened previously has absolutely no bearing on the next spin of the dice or the roulette wheel. |
This isn't a roulette wheel. And if it were, it wouldn't be 10 spins. |
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jatsad
Joined: 29 May 2010
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It's pretty simple.
On the day, we were not the best side.
West Coast beat us 3 times this year. In the end their big guys took control of the game. Our best tall defenders were unfortunately out injured and so it was just a metter of time.
In 2011, Geelong were in the middle of a dynasty and beat us 3 times that year.
In 2002 and 2003, Brisbane were in the middle of their dynasty.
So, although we are reaching grand finals with teams that maybe shouldn't be there, we get found out on the day.
This year however hurts as we had our chances but just didn't do the "right" thing in big moments.
Langdon not punching the ball through on the goal line - result goal.
Adams giving up a poor kick to Yeo - result goal.
There were others. We are not to be blamed for these, just learn from them.
We will get better and with an even run with injuries, will be thereabouts again, of this I am certain.
But that non-free kick to Maynard does hurt as it was blatant. Just another "incident" in our long history.
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Jatsad - That is all |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Post subject: Re: Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand fi | |
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| ThePieMind wrote: | | Monco Matt wrote: | Why does our club have such a hard time winning grand finals?
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Are there things going on inside the four wall of the club during GF week that affects every playing group throughout our history? Are we always over-confident, arrogant, cocky within, or do we just simply not have that ruthless attitude on game day? IDK. Any ideas? |
The answer sadly, is nothing.
Over 100 year of history there is NOTHING that is consistent and stable within the club, that if changed will make a difference.
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Every Grand FInal loss has a rational explanation, and often BAD moments ... that turn the game which offer no insight on what could be changed.
We are asking a question that has no answer - but in our disappointment, seem to always wish to resolve it, after a GF loss.
We may as well ask our selves why are we so good at winning PF's, its an equally unenlightened and futile quest. |
We are not so good at winning PFs. The list Jezza produced in one of these three threads showed that our PF performance is well within expectations.
[Here's Jezza's list: http://magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1874048#1874048 ]
You'd expect that "bad moments" in GFs would be balanced by "good moments" in the same or other GFs when you've had so many moments in so many GFs.
Over many decades, one obvious "consistent and stable" element is the supporters, who should therefore be one of the prime suspects. |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Much has been talked of about back to back flags but what we need now is back to back opportunities—god knows we have got there enough and missed
The 50,s with several goes till finally 1958
We had the 77 (by 2) 79,80,81 then 02 & 03
Surely the pendulum must swing our way
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | ... As for all the other lost GFs, by close margins, 4 points, 1 point, 10 points, 9 points, 5 points, twice, six GFs by less than 2 goals, i guess its just sheer, absolute rotten bad luck, simple as that. |
Close Losing GFs
1911 6 pts
1918 5 pts (scoring 7.15 to 9.8 )
1922 11 pts
1925 10 pts
1964 4 pts
1966 1 pt
1979 5 pts
2002 9 pts
2018 5 pts
Losses by 1-5 pts: 5
Losses by 6-11 pts: 4
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