#17,#11 Dayne Beams
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| As I've stated many times, I think it's harder to win the Spoon than the Premiership (so e.g. I don't really understand people predicting Spoons the last couple of years). |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: | | SwansWay wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | That’s just silly. People on here want to pretend that he’s a 29 disposal, goal per game mid. The reason I wanted him gone is that over 12 finals, he averages about 10 disposals less in finals than during the regular season and a quarter as many goals. If he can fix that, he’s a great pickup. If not, we can look forward to more dashed expectations. It isn’t like his goal kicking in finals is based on a trivial sample. He’s played 12 finals for 3.9. |
It probably doesn't do him justice to look at his finals record seeing as he was still a pretty inexperienced player in 2009-11. I'd argue that as he started to hint at becoming an elite midfielder (2012-) coincided with our teams decline which is no fault of his. So for our 2010 Premiership he was a second year player on the edge of our best 22. That needs to be taken into consideration. A lot to hang on the shoulders of a greenhorn -- in my best John Wayne voice  |
Well said Pilgrim |
No, not really. You need to read my subsequent post. The statistical comparison against a whole bunch of moderate to great Collingwood mids is is pretty damning, really.
Now that he's back in black and white, I'm not going to comment in the future about his completely execrable finals record to date - until he either improves it or compounds it in due course. However when he has a 30 disposal, 5 goal game against Gold Coast during the 2019 season, it's irrelevant to the big picture. We have only acquired a guy who will be 29 at the start of next season because we want a flag in the next finals series or 2. We didn't get him because we want a Brownlow Medallist, we got him because we want another elite player who will star in a winning finals campaign. If he does, he's a great pickup. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| think positive wrote: | ...
And as for the comments from some about Buckley’s emotional growth, he didn’t suddenly get a care factor, any one who had spoken to him in the past could see the wall around him, he’s just chipping at the bricks. Personally I think that’s a man thing you guys just don’t admit it til there is a puppy and toilet paper add on the telly!
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Puppies and toilet paper! Yes, please... well the puppies, anyway.
TP, if puppy-and-toilet-paper ads do it for you, I suggest watching the draft interview video of JdG (i.e. the pre-draft job interview with the Pies recruiters). |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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P4S your view on history is overly extorted so you can prove your point
By the time the 2011 GF was played Beams had played a total of 63 games
So he was barely above rookie status really considering the general rule of thumbs is 40-70 games
When he came into tn side in 2009 he was a instant hit not even you're complete bias against him could dispute that
In finals opposition teams knew by then they had to curtail his effectiveness and paid him more attention
Sidey was allowed to run free on a wing whilst Swan Pendles Beams Thomas Ball did the hard yards
His finals performances were way below his seasons work that fair but then you add in 2 finals campaigns when he was playing busted as well might explain it more fairly
You have often said players like Beams get you to the GF players like Sidey win them for you. So Sidey is 1 win 1 draw and 2 losses which pits paid to your theory there
Without going back over Sidey's recent GF performance which was about 20 tocuhes down on his season average it's fair to say any player can have a bad day or have the oppostion employ tactics to stop the effectiveness
I'm sure if he gets to play finals again his output will be much better especially now given the talent we have assembled around him |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: |
Without going back over Sidey's recent GF performance which was about 20 tocuhes down on his season average it's fair to say any player can have a bad day or have the oppostion employ tactics to stop the effectiveness
I'm sure if he gets to play finals again his output will be much better especially now given the talent we have assembled around him |
It's a salivating prospect actually.  it will be really difficult for an opposition to keep all of Sidey, Pendles, Treloar AND Beams under control for a whole game. Not to mention the other high quality players who can get tough in the mid-field like Sier, Adams and JDG.
Qldmagpie - many thanks for answering my question in the other thread. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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The thing that kills you in finals is when guys who you think of as top players underperform. It stuffs up the coaching strategy and leaves the team behind the 8-ball.
No amount of special pleading for Beams can cover the fact that, over 12 finals across 5 seasons (including the one in which he got the Copeland) he’s been up to half as good as his average home and away form. This is so well known as to be part of our folklore. The reason I referred to it again is because, yet again, posters are saying that we have a 30-disposal, goal per game mid and that could be the difference in a Grand Final. The evidence across his entire career so far is that he underperforms massively in finals.
It’s all very well to say that he’s been great at Brisbane - they haven’t played finals, though - and that is my concern.
Discussion about Sidebottom is irrelevant in this context. He played a poor Grand Final but a great final series. His finals record suggests that he generally performs at or beyond expectations in finals. Beams hasn’t in th past. It isn’t like he had one bad day. Many stars never get to play in 12 finals. He’s had plenty of opportunity to kick goals in finals like he does during the season. He has mostly failed on the big stage. Hopefully, next time or the time after, won’t. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | .
We all grow as people over time sometimes it takes people longer than others
Bucks journey as a coach has taken time and him himself has admitted he had to change
f |
Many thanks for this contribution qldmagpie. What you're saying coincides with what I posted when I was thinking out loud about their relationship too. That much water has flowed under the bridge, huge events and pressures have come upon both of them in recent years, that both have learnt valuable lessons and could now have greater respect for the other as they carry out their respective roles.
If Sidey is Dayne's best mate at the club, then his own added maturity will help Dayne to settle into the team's new outlook/approach too. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | The thing that kills you in finals is when guys who you think of as top players underperform. It stuffs up the coaching strategy and leaves the team behind the 8-ball.
No amount of special pleading for Beams can cover the fact that, over 12 finals across 5 seasons (including the one in which he got the Copeland) he’s been up to half as good as his average home and away form. This is so well known as to be part of our folklore. The reason I referred to it again is because, yet again, posters are saying that we have a 30-disposal, goal per game mid and that could be the difference in a Grand Final. The evidence across his entire career so far is that he underperforms massively in finals.
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You're harking back to something that occurred five years ago. Nearly everything about the club has changed since then and I reckon it can be safely said that a lot has changed for Dayne too!!. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | The thing that kills you in finals is when guys who you think of as top players underperform. It stuffs up the coaching strategy and leaves the team behind the 8-ball.
No amount of special pleading for Beams can cover the fact that, over 12 finals across 5 seasons (including the one in which he got the Copeland) he’s been up to half as good as his average home and away form. This is so well known as to be part of our folklore. The reason I referred to it again is because, yet again, posters are saying that we have a 30-disposal, goal per game mid and that could be the difference in a Grand Final. The evidence across his entire career so far is that he underperforms massively in finals.
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You're harking back to something that occurred five years ago. Nearly everything about the club has changed since then and I reckon it can be safely said that a lot has changed for Dayne too!!. |
Here’s hoping. My point is that none of us know because he hasn’t played a final since. It isn’t like we’re adding Croswell or Brereton (or Shuey) to our finals lineup at the peak of their powers. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: |
You're harking back to something that occurred five years ago. Nearly everything about the club has changed since then and I reckon it can be safely said that a lot has changed for Dayne too!!. |
Here�s hoping. My point is that none of us know because he hasn�t played a final since. It isn�t like we�re adding Croswell or Brereton (or Shuey) to our finals lineup at the peak of their powers. |
Yep, the future is always unknown that's for sure. I guess most of us are indulging in some (very) wishful thinking.
However, we have to make the finals first - top four to have a really good chance at the ultimate prize. Even if what you say about Beams proves to be correct (ie won't deliver in finals), IMHO he will very likely help us get to them. |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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Beams played in 11 wins out of 58 games at the Lions. We had 15 this year. Hopefully 16,17,18 next year.
_________________
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Make no mistake. Dayne Beams is a star. Welcome home Beamsy. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | The thing that kills you in finals is when guys who you think of as top players underperform. It stuffs up the coaching strategy and leaves the team behind the 8-ball.
No amount of special pleading for Beams can cover the fact that, over 12 finals across 5 seasons (including the one in which he got the Copeland) he’s been up to half as good as his average home and away form. This is so well known as to be part of our folklore. The reason I referred to it again is because, yet again, posters are saying that we have a 30-disposal, goal per game mid and that could be the difference in a Grand Final. The evidence across his entire career so far is that he underperforms massively in finals.
It’s all very well to say that he’s been great at Brisbane - they haven’t played finals, though - and that is my concern.
Discussion about Sidebottom is irrelevant in this context. He played a poor Grand Final but a great final series. His finals record suggests that he generally performs at or beyond expectations in finals. Beams hasn’t in th past. It isn’t like he had one bad day. Many stars never get to play in 12 finals. He’s had plenty of opportunity to kick goals in finals like he does during the season. He has mostly failed on the big stage. Hopefully, next time or the time after, won’t. |
The whole problem with your assessment of Beams is that you're basically judging his finals performances on one poor GF in 2010 in which he was immature and not at his best. If he had played in the 2011 GF you would be better placed to form a judgement. How would he have performed in the 2018 GF if we had had him? On the basis of his performance at Brisbane this year I would have thought he may have made the difference between winning and losing. He is a goal kicking mid. You can put him down for 1-2 goals a game. He's one of those players like Josh Thomas who doesn't miss. As for Sidebottom he is beyond criticism for his performance in the 2018 GF. He is like Swan in the 2011 GF. Sometimes things just don't go your way. Champions are champions. You can never take anything away from them. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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He's basing his finals performances mainly on the back of him being the 6th or 7th preferred mid in 2009-10 in his second season and 2 games playing injured in 2011.
His last 4 finals games have been 27 disposals or higher. 0.5 goals per game.
His first 6 finals
2009 - QF - 69% game time 11 possessions, 2 tackles game #17
2009 - PF - 64% game time 10 poss,1 tack, game #18
2010 - QF - 71% gt, 20 poss, 0.3 score, game #40
2010 - PF - 75% gt, 16 poss, 1.1, game #41
2010 - GF1 - 66% gt, 12 poss, 3 tk, game #42
2010 - GF2 - 65% gt, 11 poss, 3 tk, game #43
2011 - QF - 76% gt, 21 poss, 6 tk, 0.2 sc, game #58
2011 - PF - 55% gt, 2 poss, 2 tk, game #59
2012 - QF - 85% gt, 28 poss, 7 tk, game #81
2012 - SF - 93% gt, 30 poss, 7 tk, game #82
2012 - PF - 87% gt, 27 poss, 1.2 sc, 4 tk, game #83
2013 - EF - 90% gt, 29 poss, 1.0, 8 tk, game #91
_________________
Get back on top. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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