#17,#11 Dayne Beams
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SwansWay
Joined: 13 May 2015
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| Cam wrote: | He's basing his finals performances mainly on the back of him being the 6th or 7th preferred mid in 2009-10 in his second season and 2 games playing injured in 2011.
His last 4 finals games have been 27 disposals or higher. 0.5 goals per game.
His first 6 finals
2009 - QF - 69% game time 11 possessions, 2 tackles game #17
2009 - PF - 64% game time 10 poss,1 tack, game #18
2010 - QF - 71% gt, 20 poss, 0.3 score, game #40
2010 - PF - 75% gt, 16 poss, 1.1, game #41
2010 - GF1 - 66% gt, 12 poss, 3 tk, game #42
2010 - GF2 - 65% gt, 11 poss, 3 tk, game #43
2011 - QF - 76% gt, 21 poss, 6 tk, 0.2 sc, game #58
2011 - PF - 55% gt, 2 poss, 2 tk, game #59
2012 - QF - 85% gt, 28 poss, 7 tk, game #81
2012 - SF - 93% gt, 30 poss, 7 tk, game #82
2012 - PF - 87% gt, 27 poss, 1.2 sc, 4 tk, game #83
2013 - EF - 90% gt, 29 poss, 1.0, 8 tk, game #91 |
It might be valid if the finals record (2009-10) which P4S is mainly referring to was somewhat recent but it truly is ancient history. New team; older, more experienced Dayne; different game style -- heck the way the game is played in general has evolved since then. Then there's new rule changes. The game barely resembles itself from one year to the next much less little under a decade on. |
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Funkadelic
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
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^onya cam. thats the stat, game time %. Once he cracked over 75% game time and 60 games he performed to a pretty high standard.
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | The thing that kills you in finals is when guys who you think of as top players underperform. It stuffs up the coaching strategy and leaves the team behind the 8-ball.
No amount of special pleading for Beams can cover the fact that, over 12 finals across 5 seasons (including the one in which he got the Copeland) he’s been up to half as good as his average home and away form. This is so well known as to be part of our folklore. The reason I referred to it again is because, yet again, posters are saying that we have a 30-disposal, goal per game mid and that could be the difference in a Grand Final. The evidence across his entire career so far is that he underperforms massively in finals.
It’s all very well to say that he’s been great at Brisbane - they haven’t played finals, though - and that is my concern.
Discussion about Sidebottom is irrelevant in this context. He played a poor Grand Final but a great final series. His finals record suggests that he generally performs at or beyond expectations in finals. Beams hasn’t in th past. It isn’t like he had one bad day. Many stars never get to play in 12 finals. He’s had plenty of opportunity to kick goals in finals like he does during the season. He has mostly failed on the big stage. Hopefully, next time or the time after, won’t. |
The whole problem with your assessment of Beams is that you're basically judging his finals performances on one poor GF in 2010 in which he was immature and not at his best. If he had played in the 2011 GF you would be better placed to form a judgement. How would he have performed in the 2018 GF if we had had him? On the basis of his performance at Brisbane this year I would have thought he may have made the difference between winning and losing. He is a goal kicking mid. You can put him down for 1-2 goals a game. He's one of those players like Josh Thomas who doesn't miss. As for Sidebottom he is beyond criticism for his performance in the 2018 GF. He is like Swan in the 2011 GF. Sometimes things just don't go your way. Champions are champions. You can never take anything away from them. |
2 Grand Finals but 12 finals in total. I'm not saying he hasn't kicked a goal in a Grand Final, I'm saying he's kicked 3 goals in 12 finals across 5 seasons. Is this really so difficult to comprehend? The entire point I'm making is that there is simply no basis whatsoever for thinking that you can "put him down for 1 to 2 goals per game" in a final because he simply has not done it.
2009: 2 finals, no goals
2010: 4 finals, 1 goal
2011: 2 finals, no goals
2012: 3 finals, 1 goal
2013: 1 final, 1 goal
The biggest concern, really, is that he won a Copeland Trophy in 2012, kicked 27 goals in his 21 home and away goals and then kicked only one goal against three teams in the finals. During that season, he kicked 4 goals against Hawthorn in round 17 and none in the final, kicked 3 goals against West Coast in round 13 (and got 3 Brownlow votes) and 1 in round 22 but none in the finals and kicked 3 against Sydney in round 20 (and got 3 Brownlow votes) and none in the finals.
Seriously, at what point do we accept that his goal-kicking record in finals is both a pattern and unreliable? |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Thanks. I see I reached similar conclusions at that time, too. Eg:
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | 12 finals for 3 goals. He didn't kick a goal in the 2009 finals series, kicked 1 (in 4 finals) in 2010, 0 in 2011, 1 in 2012 and 1 in 2013. That's some record for a "goal-kicking" slow, outside mid. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | That's just special pleading. In his first season (2009), when he was a year younger than Beams was when Beams played his first final, Sidebottom helped carry Collingwood to victory in a final against Adelaide that we weren't supposed to win (25 disposals, 10 tackles, 6 inside 50s and 2 goal assists - only Heater and Swanny had more of the ball - but neither had 30 disposals). It was his 10th game for the Pies. Beams didn't even get to play that game. The following year, Sidey was one of our best 3 players over the two Grand Finals.
Similarly, Pendlebury starred and kicked a goal (playing as a genuine mid, of course) in both of his first two finals, before he'd turned 20.
Another way of looking at it is that Beams has kicked the same number of goals as Jarryd Blair in finals. Blair has played one less final and is slightly younger than Beams (so, he was - of course, younger than Beams in every single final he played).
Some people have the talent necessary to play and perform on the big stage. Some people don't. Players who repeatedly perform well below their in-season best during finals campaigns cost their teams premierships.
It's the very reason I regard Sidebottom so highly and never rated Beams. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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perthmagpie 
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga
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Beams broke his foot leading up to the QB match in 2011. He carried the effects of that injury into the finals.
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Magpies love pies(Lol) |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| perthmagpie wrote: | | Beams broke his foot leading up to the QB match in 2011. He carried the effects of that injury into the finals. |
He kicked 11 goals in the 6 games leading into those finals (2, 3, 2, 1, 2, 1) and none in either final. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| perthmagpie wrote: | | Beams broke his foot leading up to the QB match in 2011. He carried the effects of that injury into the finals. |
Really? I don't recall. What did the medicos do rehab-wise? How many games did he miss?
I have bad memories of players and coaches all year talking about being "cherry-ripe" for the finals... and of course, come finals, all the cherries were crushed and rotten. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | ...
It seems Barrett was on the money. |
Well, no one doubts that on the ASADA stuff he was on the money, but he certainly wasn't on the ethics, and some source of his must have broken some law, such as that written in the ASADA Act (punishable by two years imprisonment).
And I don't know if people got stuck into him for the trade story. I know people got stuck into him for his alleged responses to questions about it. |
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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High Beamers are back  |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| K wrote: | | perthmagpie wrote: | | Beams broke his foot leading up to the QB match in 2011. He carried the effects of that injury into the finals. |
Really? I don't recall. What did the medicos do rehab-wise? How many games did he miss?
I have bad memories of players and coaches all year talking about being "cherry-ripe" for the finals... and of course, come finals, all the cherries were crushed and rotten. |
| K wrote: | | perthmagpie wrote: | | Beams broke his foot leading up to the QB match in 2011. He carried the effects of that injury into the finals. |
Really? I don't recall. What did the medicos do rehab-wise? How many games did he miss?
I have bad memories of players and coaches all year talking about being "cherry-ripe" for the finals... and of course, come finals, all the cherries were crushed and rotten. |
He missed 6 weeks (rounds 12 to 18 - but 13 was a bye) and then, as I posted above, came back and kicked 11 goals in the last 6 home and away games. As for disposals, he had 25, 32, 25, 30, 31 and 29 in those 6 games. Even excluding the prelim (he played 3 quarters of it but hardly touched the ball, so he must have played injured) he had at least 2 goals or at least 29 disposals and 1 goal in every one of those 6 last home and away games but the next week managed only 21 disposals and no goals in the QF. |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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| Funkadelic wrote: | | ^onya cam. thats the stat, game time %. Once he cracked over 75% game time and 60 games he performed to a pretty high standard. |
Exactly.
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Get back on top. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Deja Vu wrote: | | Monco Matt wrote: | | How is a 28 year old worth two first round picks? We always pay overs. Not sure if that is worth it. If we win a flag then yes, otherwise...... |
Bryce Gibbs? |
And funnily enough, he also went to a club that had been beaten in a G F the year before. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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And look at Adelaide now!  |
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