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| Do you want the Collingwood club song's words changed, in particular the word "cakewalk"? |
| 1) No. I do not want any changes to the words. |
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79% |
[ 39 ] |
| 2) Maybe. I am unsure and might be persuaded either way. |
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8% |
[ 4 ] |
| 3) Yes. I want change(s) to the word(s), AND I cannot be bothered reading through the options below to specify exactly what change(s). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 4) Yes. Specifically, I want only a one-word change (replace "cakewalk"). |
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6% |
[ 3 ] |
| 5) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "There is just one team we favour" (the Club's failed 1983 version). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 6) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For the Magpie Army's faithful" (To...). |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| 7) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For the courage is unfailing" (At...). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 8) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For I hear the magpie calling". |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 9) Yes. I want change(s) to the words, AND my specific preference is none of the above. |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 49 |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| David wrote: | | K wrote: | | ... (Oh, and I don't know where you got that "116 years" from. GOCF is younger than that; GDG is older than that.) |
My impression was that the song was written in 1902, but it seems like I was out by four years. Thanks for taking the time to correct me, as the fact it’s 112 (now 113) years rather than 116 clearly negates my argument completely. 
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Not yet, David! Only in August. Be patient! 
(Oh, I have to object to your wording. I'd say the lyrics were written in 1906. I'd say the song was written in 1897.)
| David wrote: | ...
As for boastfulness in club songs, ... the tone of most of the rest of the songs is at least aspirational. But what do you expect? It’s a celebratory song, mostly sung after victories. |
I agree words are aspirational. I agree they should be. The question is what should be aspired to. I'll say more on this in a new post.
Well, the songs are blared out at dangerous volumes right at the start of each match. Unless spectators (possible) and players (improbable) are wearing earplugs, it's not so easy to escape from. That also makes me wonder: when did this practice of audio attack begin? I'm guessing it must have been a fairly recent thing. I'd be a little surprised if this was going on pre-War. |
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glasseyevfx
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Location: Gold Coast
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Mid way through the last season of 'The Good Wife' (2015) - one of the lawyers make a claim that ' this trial should be a Cakewalk'. perhaps the term isn't as far gone or as offensive as you think.
Good series written by the Scott brothers.
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We shall set our course by the stars and not ships that pass in the night |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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In terms of how "far gone" it is, I assume The Good Wife is American... I'd say the word is far more familiar inside the US than outside.
(Maybe the Scott brothers should stick to coaching. )
Last edited by K on Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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glasseyevfx
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Location: Gold Coast
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yeap - American. Not heard it much in popular culture so it stood out.
_________________
We shall set our course by the stars and not ships that pass in the night |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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I'll rinse and repeat.... from an earlier post of mine ...[/quote] As for the songs of other clubs, none of them have the outrageous audacity to say that premierships are a 'cakewalk".
[quote]
David, I believe there's a distinct difference between saying your team is "mighty" or "the greatest" (all generic terms) and saying that winning the premiership is a piece of pi3s, especially in today's ultra-competitive environment. The latter is sprouting a line that is specific and supposedly factual, but everyone with reasonable intelligence should be able to see to that it is glaringly wrong and absolute nonsense and complete BS. This is especially so in modern football, where there are 17 other teams striving for the same goal and the AFL is desperately trying to even out the competition. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| stui magpie wrote: |
Why should we change the club song? |
Stui, would you like to address some of my other arguments for changing it?
1) It's a term that's so rarely used these days in our country. In fact, the only time I ever hear it is when the club song is played. Imagine your plumber clearing a drain and saying "Well, that was a cakewalk!!".
2) It's so blatantly incorrect. We are all chanting a lie and we know it!!! This is especially so in today's ultra-competitive AFL environment compared to early 1900's, when there were just 8 teams in the competition. The premiership has not been a cakewalk for us for a long, long time. The number of lost GF's in the last fifty years would also testify to that!!
3) Linked into the point above, I find it embarrassing to sing as a Collingwood supporter, because it's absolute BS!! Also, I tend to be one who admires the quiet achievers in any realm of life and this term conveys to me an attitude of completely unwarranted, irrelevant arrogance. What a turn off!! More and more these days, athletes shy away from making grandiose, gloating statements about what they're going to achieve. They know that doesn't work to their advantage. Even the coaches pay due respect to the opposition before every game in their pressers.
4) The term can hardly be considered to be motivational to the players and coaches. They, above all else, know that there's no cakewalk involved in getting to the finals, let alone winning a GF. It's gut-wrenching hard work, team play and inner belief. Ditching it would create an opportunity to create a line that would be really genuinely inspiring to players and supporters alike and further endorse the support the players have from the Magpie army. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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^^^ ... and also...
| PyreneesPie wrote: | ...
6) The previous attempt to change the last line of the club song in 1983 indicated that a discontent with the line was coming from somewhere. However, the only trouble was they replaced it with something that was just insipid. Perhaps something that encapsulated the Magpie Army would've had far more appeal.
... |
(... because I'm not sure whether the response "Wasn't that the New Magpies?? I think the New Magpies were #^*$@#%!!!" really addresses this point...) It'd be nice to know the full circumstances of the Club's attempt to change the line. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| K wrote: | | It'd be nice to know the full circumstances of the Club's attempt to change the line. |
Oh, wouldn't it just!!!
Another thing I'd love to know is just what the players and coaches honestly think of that line. They are all under extreme pressure as it is - from everywhere - other team members, club committee, media, themselves, the unrealistically high expectations of Pies supporters. To operate optimally under the burden of the notion that the "premiership's a cakewalk" must be horrendous  when they know it's anything but. |
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glasseyevfx
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Location: Gold Coast
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personally I never interpenetrated the song as saying "we declare ourselves a shoe in"
I thought it was was saying we are a wonderful talented club: we know how to play the game, with a team that works together: side by side, and so surely we will have the premiership because of our attitude.
_________________
We shall set our course by the stars and not ships that pass in the night |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: |
Why should we change the club song? |
Stui, would you like to address some of my other arguments for changing it?
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OK, here goes
| Quote: |
1) It's a term that's so rarely used these days in our country. In fact, the only time I ever hear it is when the club song is played. Imagine your plumber clearing a drain and saying "Well, that was a cakewalk!!".
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I agree it's a term that's not in common use these days, there's a lot of Australian terms that would fit the same bill. Despite that, pretty much everyone understands what it means in context, so I don't think it's lack of popular usage is justification for removing it. | Quote: |
2) It's so blatantly incorrect. We are all chanting a lie and we know it!!! This is especially so in today's ultra-competitive AFL environment compared to early 1900's, when there were just 8 teams in the competition. The premiership has not been a cakewalk for us for a long, long time. The number of lost GF's in the last fifty years would also testify to that!!
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I'll pay that it's not correct as the premiership is actually a cakewalk for no team, but it's no less incorrect than Geelong declaring themselves "the greatest team of all" or Calton declaring they will never let supporters down. It's an aspirational boast
Even in light of our history of finishing runners up, that doesn't justify to me why we should remove it. In fact, removing it and the reaction that would glean from other supporters would cut me way more than leaving it alone. It would be like symbolically waving the white flag and saying to all that we accept we're losers. There's an apocryphal storey that in the early stages of 2010, the players in a team meeting were setting goals for the season ahead. Various talk of number of wins and playing finals until one player (either Fraser or Maxwell) allegedly said, "Why don't we just aim to win the fkn flag?" Setting high aspirations and going for them, even if you fail, is better than setting low ones and achieving them. | Quote: |
3) Linked into the point above, I find it embarrassing to sing as a Collingwood supporter, because it's absolute BS!! Also, I tend to be one who admires the quiet achievers in any realm of life and this term conveys to me an attitude of completely unwarranted, irrelevant arrogance. What a turn off!! More and more these days, athletes shy away from making grandiose, gloating statements about what they're going to achieve. They know that doesn't work to their advantage. Even the coaches pay due respect to the opposition before every game in their pressers.
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I can acknowledge that you feel that way, but I don't. See my answer to 2 above. Plus, most of the players these days are big fans of US sports where players continually make grandiose statements so sorry, I disagree
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4) The term can hardly be considered to be motivational to the players and coaches. They, above all else, know that there's no cakewalk involved in getting to the finals, let alone winning a GF. It's gut-wrenching hard work, team play and inner belief. Ditching it would create an opportunity to create a line that would be really genuinely inspiring to players and supporters alike and further endorse the support the players have from the Magpie army. |
I agree it wouldn't be motivational, but really how many of them are? Is the lack of a motivational club song the reason for St Kilda and Melbourne's long premiership drought? I doubt it very much. Richmond seem to have the generally acknowledged best and most inspiring song, it didn't help them during their 37 year premiership drought. Players are motivated by winning, personal pride and team success, not songs. (ok, maybe add money for some).
If you can show me some categorical evidence that removing "Cakewalk" from the club song will increase our chances of winning premierships, I'm in. I'll sign the petition. However, without that, I see no tangible benefit from change and with no benefit there's no valid case in my view.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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npalm
Joined: 01 May 2005
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Just voted no. I've been singing this song since I was a kid. (and that is quite some time ago). It's embedded in my brain and my heart. I love it - warts, cakewalks and all.
I agree with Stui..... replacing the line will not make one iota of difference to our chances of winning premierships.
PP and K, I understand your points of view but I think you are way overestimating the impact of the words on the players and the coaching staff.
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Side by side. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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npalm, the exact impact is something I'm still pondering (while also waiting for the bulk of the posters on this topic in the precursor discussion in the other thread to express their views in this thread). I'll have more to say as time progresses.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is this: You don't need to know the precise size of an effect if you are certain about the only direction in which it can possibly act. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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And are you certain about the only direction a change to the song lyrics can act? I'm not. I can see more negatives than positives but remain open to be convinced.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Cam wrote: | | think positive wrote: | No no no and NO!
Leave it the **** alone, WE are COLLINGWOOD we don’t need to change a damn thing, for any reason, and certainly not for a bullshit politically correct one! |
This |
Yep.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| stui magpie wrote: | ...
There's an apocryphal [story] that in the early stages of 2010, the players in a team meeting were setting goals for the season ahead. Various talk of number of wins and playing finals until one player (either Fraser or Maxwell) allegedly said, "Why don't we just aim to win the fkn flag?" ... |
No, it was Josh Fraser, at the end of 2008, who reportedly complained that they ''just don't talk about winning the ******* premiership''.* (Maybe that's what happens to talk when your captain and vice-captain have just retired... Err... make that your captain and vice-captain, and then, not unexpectedly, the replacement captain too...  )
Every time I see Fraser coaching, I think about how he removed himself from the Collingwood leadership group because he didn't like meetings. I wonder what his coaching style is... But I digress...
What influence did his complaint have on what happened next? Very little, I'd say. Should we grudge Fraser for his obvious sulkiness at the pointy end of 2010?** (Maybe his body couldn't do it any more, but there were two forward spots up for grabs that season, and they were gratefully seized by solid, team-oriented players in L. Brown and Dawes, who put their heads down and produced VFL performances that demanded selection.) I don't know. What about his comments about Collingwood supporters? (The destruction of his relationship with the fans is a sad tale.) I don't know.
On the basis of all of that, though, I probably wouldn't trust him to have great psychological insights...#
* I believe this is reported in Peter Ryan's book, Side by Side: A Season with Collingwood.
** I don't mean this to sound overly critical of Fraser.
# There's an absolutely huge difference between something like (e.g.) "let's win the premiership" and "the premiership's a cakewalk", but I'll comment on that later. |
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