"Cakewalk"? Should the club song words be changed?

[K]

<This question arose in the "Curses" thread, in which I agreed to start this poll. I'll mention some of the discussion points in this post and possibly elaborate in subsequent posts.>

Should the Collingwood club song's words be changed, in particular the word "cakewalk"? Please vote above! The quick voting option is simply to choose one of Options 1)-3). If you want change, the longer voting option is to choose one of Options 4)-9).


Curses aside, the arguments in favour of change are:
1) Embarrassment about, or at least discomfort with, the claim that the premiership is a "cakewalk".
2) It does not rhyme. Everything else does rhyme.
3) Outdated language. Is this word used anywhere else nowadays?
4) Links to slavery, racism, etc.


The arguments in favour of retention are:
I) Tradition.
II) Effort required to choose and adopt a replacement.


Personally, I find argument I) against change weaker than I might in other settings. In order of importance, here are some of the things we might want to be cautious about changing:
i) The club's name, including nickname, and the city;
ii) The club's jumper colours and design;
iii) The club song's tune and lyrics;
iv) The club's logo.
Of these, i) must not be, and has not been, changed. Of less importance is iv), which has frequently been changed. On ii): the jumper has remained the same in spirit, but lots and lots of changes have been made to the details -- and no one, as far as I am aware, is bothered by that.

The Club itself tried to change the words in 1983.


On argument 2) for change: there are countless poems that don't have rhyming lines, but when there is only one place in all of the lyrics where it doesn't rhyme, I tend to think that, unless it's a deliberate choice that achieves some magical poetic effect, it is simply a glaring flaw.

[K]

On 4), connotations of slavery and racism: here again is the post http://magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1882687#1882687 (look there for the picture of the sheet-music cover).


Historical footage of the cakewalk from the Library of Congress:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QifiyNm6jG4


Henry T. Sampson, in Blacks in Blackface: A Sourcebook on Early Black Musical Shows:

"Two years before Bob Cole produced A Trip to Coontown, Bert Williams and George Walker, America's greatest comedy team, came east from the West Coast. They brought with them their famous cakewalk dance and their song "Has Anybody Seen Dora Dean?" ...
Bert Williams, however was really lighter in complexion than his partner Walker, and blackened up several shades darker than George. The team was billed as "The Two Real Coons." Williams, in his style of blackface comedy and dancing, and in his delivery of a song, was inimitable."


Regan Schrumm, http://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/who-takes-cake-history-cakewalk :

"But just like a cake, cakewalking has delicate layers—of race, culture, and appropriated entertainment embedded throughout. Who knew this pleasing game had such a murky and complicated past that demonstrated how African Americans opposed their oppressors?

Although the exact year and location are still undetermined, oral histories from enslaved people assert that the cakewalk began in the enslaved quarters of Southern plantations. ... But the cakewalk was more than a recreational dance; it also gave a chance for enslaved people to ridicule those who tyrannized them. The dancers would dress up in their finest clothes and parodied the mannerisms and dancing of the white Southern elite.
...

While it might be assumed that slave owners would punish their slaves for this mocking behavior, in fact, many owners actually encouraged it. According to the ragtime musician Shepard Edmonds, who described the stories of his formerly enslaved parents, "They did a take-off on the high manners of the white folks in the 'big-house,' but their masters, who gathered around to watch the fun, missed the point." Often the white slave owners even assumed the role of presenting the cake instead of the enslaved people choosing among themselves, once again trying to demonstrate their authority.

In fact, white people became so enthralled with cakewalks that by the end of the Civil War, it became a regular routine in minstrel shows, a type of variety show where white people performed in blackface. ... Cakewalk imagery was also used on sheet music, advertising, prints, and toys, with African Americans being depicted as cartoonish and racist stereotypes.

By the 1870s African American actors began to perform as minstrels, though often still in blackface. While some African Americans were able to distinguish themselves from the white performers by bringing some humanity to the caricatures, the black minstrels continued to depict racist content. Many African American performers attempted to reclaim the cakewalk; as such, as ragtime historian Terry Waldo states, the dance became about "Blacks imitating whites who were imitating Blacks who were imitating whites." For example, in the way well-known African American performer George Walker executed the cakewalk, he was not seen as a clown, but instead a graceful dancer."

[glasseyevfx]

don't buy its racist.
There is no shortage of academics or disgruntled people of race that point at culture and scream issue where its only their point of view rather than fact.
The question you should ask is 'Are the people performing the Cakewalk being forced to do so because of their colour or for some malicious intent?' I don't think so - The dance looks like fun - thats it. The fact a white (at the time) football club has adopted it says more about it not being offensive than otherwise.
Love the tradition of Collingwood and appreciate its link to a dance that is a celebration rather than a political statement.

[ronrat]

The whole issue has been hijacked ,not as bad as the Golliwogstuff (which were Egyptian) but any suggestion that a club founded in Irish-Catholic working class poor suburbs is attention seeking at best and malicious at worst.

Racecallers often say "The horse has won in a cakewalk" No suggestion they are racist as well. After all there are more black horses than white.

[K]

I find the "tradition argument" unconvincing here. The club's jumper colours and design are far, far more important to me for tradition. Although the idea of black and white stripes has remained (as it should!), the specific design has undergone large and frequent changes over the years.


Here is the original*:




Here's the 1910 version:




Many changes follow, some larger than others. Two black stripes, front and back, become three black stripes in 1928. Black and white swap places from 2001 to the present (with the reverse for away jumpers from 2007 on). These are huge changes. Did people fight for "tradition" then?


* https://www.footyjumpers.com/collingwoodhome.htm

[HAL]

Thanks for telling me your opinion.

[BazBoy]

“Goodbye Dolly I must leave you” a very popular 19th century song wafts thru from the bar / bordello as Butch and Sundance sit drinking a beer

[PyreneesPie]

Many thanks to you K for all the time and preparation you put in prior to launching the poll. It's been an interesting exercise, that's for sure.

Here's my opinion/feelings about why the term "cakewalk" should be abandoned:
1) It's a term that's so rarely used these days. In fact, the only time I ever hear it is when the club song is played. Imagine your plumber clearing a drain and saying "Well, that was a cakewalk!!".
2) It's so blatantly INCORRECT. The premiership has not been a cakewalk for us since the 1950's. The number of lost GF's since then would also testify to that!!
3) Linked into the point above, I find it embarrassing to sing as a Collingwood supporter, because it's absolute BS!! Also, I tend to be one who admires the quiet achievers in any realm of life and this term conveys to me an attitude of completely UNWARRANTED arrogance. What a turn off!!
4) The term can hardly be considered to be motivational to the players and coaches. They, above all else, know that there's no cakewalk involved in getting to the finals, let alone winning a GF. Ditching it would create an opportunity to create a line that would be really GENUINELY INSPIRING to players and supporters alike.
5) The origins of the actual cakewalk, as diligently discovered by K in the video above, demonstrate this to me .... black people taking the mickey out of white behaviour. Good on them I say!! But what on earth does this have to do with winning football premierships?????
6) The previous attempt to change the last line of the club song in 1983 indicated that a discontent with the line was coming from somewhere. However, the only trouble was they replaced it with something that was just insipid. Perhaps something that encapsulated the Magpie Army would've had far more appeal.

I love Collingwood. I love the opening lines of the club song, especially "side by side we stick together". Love it - that's the Collingwood spirit through and through!!!! But the cringeworthy last line is NOT Collingwood - not anymore. We could have a final line that was inspiring and encapsulated the fighting, never give up attitude of both players and supporters - something that typifies the Collingwood spirit.... a line that we could all feel justifiably proud about singing.

PS Sorry about the "shouting" of some words in capitals, but the Quick Reply does not allow for bolding.

[PyreneesPie]

[PyreneesPie]

Another thought on tradition - it certainly can have its positives, mainly to create a sense of history and belonging, but if it's not applicable to the current situation and hasn't been for years, why be afraid to change something and create something better????

[themonk]

Instead of focusing on changing our club song we should be looking at altering the fortunes of our GF performances, all this club needs is a small dynasty, a 10 year period were we win 3-4 flags.

Who cares if we have lost 27 GF's when we have won 19-20 flags? that should be our goal.

[PyreneesPie]

[stui magpie]

I voted No. IIRC the New Magpies under Ranald MacDonald changed the club song back in the 80's and removed the cakewalk reference but it was replaced once they were ditched.

This is that version, by Mike Brady. There's also a few other subtle changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcaxbPL7y9w

The use of the changes to the jumper is a red herring argument. Every club has changed their jumper over the years, the fundamental thing with ours that has never changed is the black and white vertical stripes.

The slavery reference is also irrelevant as it was covered above that the Slaves used it as an opportunity to take the P155 out of the plantation owners so they certainly didn't consider it repressive or derogatory.

The only reason to remove it is because "A cakewalk" is in context considered something easy and us winning premierships has not been easy for a very long time. But I don't buy that either. I'd rather our team be confident and sing that line with real belief that we will romp it in rather than be wimpy and apologetic. If supporters of other teams want to use it to taunt us, big freaking deal, IDGAF what their opinion is about us or their opinion in general. They can go and copulate with a cactus using ground glass for lube for all I care.

I like change when it's change for a reason, to make something better or fix something that's broken. I see no valid reason to change our theme song at all.

[K]

[think positive]

No no no and NO!

Leave it the **** alone, WE are COLLINGWOOD we don’t need to change a damn thing, for any reason, and certainly not for a bullshit politically correct one!