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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Did Brodie play the GF with a squash ball in his left boot? That would explain a few things. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| It wouldn't explain how he still managed 4 more hitouts than any other Collingwood player in any game, ever. |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | It wouldn't explain how he still managed 4 more hitouts than any other Collingwood player in any game, ever. |
And to think DalSanto rated his game average and unworthy of a vote!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| inxs88 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | It wouldn't explain how he still managed 4 more hitouts than any other Collingwood player in any game, ever. |
And to think DalSanto rated his game average and unworthy of a vote! |
When did Dal Santo get to vote on the Grand Final - and, if he did, why would anyone care what he thought? |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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After 117 games
Dean Cox
Kicks: 868 Handballs: 636 Marks: 574 Score: 58.25 Hitouts: 2216 Tackles: 136
Clearances: 277 Clangers: 201 Frees For: 175 Against: 103 1%: 205
Contested Possessions: 600 Uncontested: 915 Inside 50: 179 Rebound 50: 164
Brodie Grundy
Kicks: 905 Handballs: 1101 Marks: 406 Score: 38.39 Hitouts: 3546 Tackles: 498
Clearances: 451 Clangers: 419 Frees For: 189 Against: 202 1%: 258
Contested Possessions: 1124 Uncontested: 926 Inside 50: 237 Rebound 50: 130
Cox is my benchmark for mobile ruckmen since 1977.
Doesn't include last night's monster effort.
_________________
Get back on top. |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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Marks and goal stats are quite telling, its the one area you give up having a mobile ruckman is they aren't that big target to take plenty of marks and be dangerous drifting forward
That's where we are desperately missing Cox atm |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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After 12 rounds, Thor has 502 hitouts for the 'Pies, at an average of 41.83 per game. That's nearly 2 per game better than his 2018. To put this in some context, Peter Moore played 25 games for 7 fewer total hitouts in the year he won the Brownlow at Collingwood.
Remarkably, he already has yet another of the top 10 most hitouts in a season for Collingwood. That's the fourth year in a row he's achieved that. His 2017 and 2018 are the two highest tallies ever by a Collingwood player. Barring injury or rest, he is likely to take the third spot on the table this year in the next 3 to 5 games, speaking conservatively (he only needs to get to 650 to take that spot). |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Oh, and he's also averaging more contested possessions, more disposals, more clearances, more marks, more contested marks and more rebound 50s than in any of his past seasons.
It's good to know that the best player in the competition is still gradually improving his output. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | Oh, and he's also averaging more contested possessions, more disposals, more clearances, more marks, more contested marks and more rebound 50s than in any of his past seasons.
It's good to know that the best player in the competition is still gradually improving his output. |
I though he had a poor game by his standards v the Dees. Grundy often taps a lot to the opposition and he is obviously carrying an injury. Having said that he needs the benefit of having Cox in the team as a "chop-out".
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| You're not the only one, wpt. It probably was a poor game by his standards but, despite the weight of the stats being in Gawn's favour, he had virtually no influence on the game, whereas Grundy's efforts played an enormous part in winning us the game. Grundy played under obvious physical duress - but he still won virtually every key contest in that game in the first three quarters. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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I'll just add these from the post-game thread to flesh out my last comment:
| Pies4shaw wrote: | Just rewatching the game, now. I think that quite a few of you are getting influenced by Gawn's stats - he was actually useless in the first half of the game. Grundy thrashed him. By the time Gawn got his hands on the ball, the game was over. Grundy was particularly dominant in the second and third quarters. He left Gawn in his wake until the game was broken.
Watson's commentary in the second quarter after Sier's point is informative. I'll quote: "It was interesting - Max Gawn let Grundy go, he let him go up to the wing and take the ball. He went back about another half kick but in the end he was useless there because they just ran around him."
That's how I saw Gawn's game for the first half. Straight after Sier's point, it's 5.7 to 2.2, the game is over as a contest and Grundy has been the winner, hands-down of all of the influential contests between him and Gawn.
Edit - And just to reinforce that, 5 m 33 s to go in the first half, Grundy runs off Gawn, again, to intercept a Melbourne handball out of defence - he gives the ball to Mihocek in space. Cek kicks a point when he probably should goal. Gawn is just a spectator (yet again) as Grundy imposes himself on the game.
Anyone who really thinks Gawn beat Grundy has no understanding at all of how the influential moments of footy games are won and lost. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | Another key moment - 4 m 40s, centre bounce after Melbourne get back to within 19 points. Grundy down Sier's throat, straight into the forward line. 20 seconds later, he gives it to Sier again from the throw in inside our forward 50. Further throw in contest - Gawn, now physically incapable of competing with Grundy scrags badly - should give away another free to Thor, 25 metres out but, remarkably gets away with it - no matter, Grundy follows up twice on the ground and eventually the ball comes to Sidebottom, who kicks the goal from the half chance.
Back to the centre. Can Gawn be beaten 4 in a row? Yes, of course he can, - Grundy down to Sier, again, across to Phillips, kicks foward to WHE, handball to Treloar, goal. Four important ruck contests in a row. Grundy won all of them. Melbourne went to the first three with a chance to get within 13 points and finished up over 5 goals behind, in the space of a minute. Give Gawn the coaches' votes, give him the Brownlow Medal, who cares? At every single important moment in this game, he was pantsed. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | WarrenerraW wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Anyone who really thinks Gawn beat Grundy has no understanding at all of how the influential moments of footy games are won and lost. |
I think people mean that Grundy was beaten in the ruck and not necessarily around the ground. Grundy is by far the better and more effective player. He has midfielder like qualities which gawn does not possess. He moves around the ground and always back up and presents an option. gawn is a ruckman, simple as that really. The ruck stats may sway to his favour because they won the clearances, but that's about it. |
Yes, i know that's what some people seem to think - but it's actually so entirely incorrect that it defies belief. It's like people have become so comfortable watching Grundy win the ruck 45 hitouts to 10 that they can't appreciate him pantsing a good ruckman at every important moment in a game. Every single time the game was in the balance - or even looked like it might be, Gawn came up empty against the best ruckman in the competition. Lucky Grundy was on one leg and playing with a neck injury, I reckon - Gawn wouldn't want to play him fit, that's for sure. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Back to the end of the third quarter. 2m 39s to go. The ball goes out of bounds on the wing (after Thomas isn't given an obvious free for being dragged down in the marking contest). Grundy beaten by Gawn? Of course not - a beautiful tap to Mayne's advantage, ball to Treloar and down inside our 50. A couple of repeat entries after the ensuing forward throw-in (at which Gawn shoves Grundy in the back and palms it straight to Sier) and a defensive skill error by Melbourne turns it over to Pendles, who gives it to Stephenson, who kicks it forward for another WHE mark and goal. In the blink of an eye, Collingwood is 6 goals up. |
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WhyPhilWhy?
WhyPhilWhy?
Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Location: Location: Location:
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| I was amused that the press journos all appeared to give Gawn the BOG, whereas the radio and TV journos gave it to Treloar. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | You're not the only one, wpt. It probably was a poor game by his standards but, despite the weight of the stats being in Gawn's favour, he had virtually no influence on the game, whereas Grundy's efforts played an enormous part in winning us the game. Grundy played under obvious physical duress - but he still won virtually every key contest in that game in the first three quarters. |
I thought the same about Gawn: he was not influential - although some of that can be attributed to the inefficient and squandered play by the Dees.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^ I genuinely believe they just look at the stats. Gawn's game was irrelevant to the outcome of the match, although he got a fair bit of the footy, generally in places where it didn't matter. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | I'll just add these from the post-game thread to flesh out my last comment:
| Pies4shaw wrote: | Just rewatching the game, now. I think that quite a few of you are getting influenced by Gawn's stats - he was actually useless in the first half of the game. Grundy thrashed him. By the time Gawn got his hands on the ball, the game was over. Grundy was particularly dominant in the second and third quarters. He left Gawn in his wake until the game was broken.
Watson's commentary in the second quarter after Sier's point is informative. I'll quote: "It was interesting - Max Gawn let Grundy go, he let him go up to the wing and take the ball. He went back about another half kick but in the end he was useless there because they just ran around him."
That's how I saw Gawn's game for the first half. Straight after Sier's point, it's 5.7 to 2.2, the game is over as a contest and Grundy has been the winner, hands-down of all of the influential contests between him and Gawn.
Edit - And just to reinforce that, 5 m 33 s to go in the first half, Grundy runs off Gawn, again, to intercept a Melbourne handball out of defence - he gives the ball to Mihocek in space. Cek kicks a point when he probably should goal. Gawn is just a spectator (yet again) as Grundy imposes himself on the game.
Anyone who really thinks Gawn beat Grundy has no understanding at all of how the influential moments of footy games are won and lost. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | Another key moment - 4 m 40s, centre bounce after Melbourne get back to within 19 points. Grundy down Sier's throat, straight into the forward line. 20 seconds later, he gives it to Sier again from the throw in inside our forward 50. Further throw in contest - Gawn, now physically incapable of competing with Grundy scrags badly - should give away another free to Thor, 25 metres out but, remarkably gets away with it - no matter, Grundy follows up twice on the ground and eventually the ball comes to Sidebottom, who kicks the goal from the half chance.
Back to the centre. Can Gawn be beaten 4 in a row? Yes, of course he can, - Grundy down to Sier, again, across to Phillips, kicks foward to WHE, handball to Treloar, goal. Four important ruck contests in a row. Grundy won all of them. Melbourne went to the first three with a chance to get within 13 points and finished up over 5 goals behind, in the space of a minute. Give Gawn the coaches' votes, give him the Brownlow Medal, who cares? At every single important moment in this game, he was pantsed. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | WarrenerraW wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Anyone who really thinks Gawn beat Grundy has no understanding at all of how the influential moments of footy games are won and lost. |
I think people mean that Grundy was beaten in the ruck and not necessarily around the ground. Grundy is by far the better and more effective player. He has midfielder like qualities which gawn does not possess. He moves around the ground and always back up and presents an option. gawn is a ruckman, simple as that really. The ruck stats may sway to his favour because they won the clearances, but that's about it. |
Yes, i know that's what some people seem to think - but it's actually so entirely incorrect that it defies belief. It's like people have become so comfortable watching Grundy win the ruck 45 hitouts to 10 that they can't appreciate him pantsing a good ruckman at every important moment in a game. Every single time the game was in the balance - or even looked like it might be, Gawn came up empty against the best ruckman in the competition. Lucky Grundy was on one leg and playing with a neck injury, I reckon - Gawn wouldn't want to play him fit, that's for sure. |
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Back to the end of the third quarter. 2m 39s to go. The ball goes out of bounds on the wing (after Thomas isn't given an obvious free for being dragged down in the marking contest). Grundy beaten by Gawn? Of course not - a beautiful tap to Mayne's advantage, ball to Treloar and down inside our 50. A couple of repeat entries after the ensuing forward throw-in (at which Gawn shoves Grundy in the back and palms it straight to Sier) and a defensive skill error by Melbourne turns it over to Pendles, who gives it to Stephenson, who kicks it forward for another WHE mark and goal. In the blink of an eye, Collingwood is 6 goals up. |
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Great observations P4S. I noticed Watson’s comments last night when watching that qtr for the first time in replay
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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