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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | He wasn't "beaten in a one-on-one contest". He punched the ball away from Silvagni and Cripps was the only other player near the contest, about 30 metres clear of his opponent. The result was inevitable because, at that particular stage of the last quarter, we badly lacked run in the midfield. There were reasons for that, too, but to blame Langdon for anything that happened is a little low, even by your standards of navarchusinfuturoitis. |
Mate completely wrong it was silvagni who spoiled the ball from a stationary Langdon watch the replay again this time without a blind fold on
Cripps wasn't the only player near the contest Crisp run in and when Cripps kicked it (maybe 2 steps to late) Grundy was also about 3-5m behind Cripps
Your ingnornace not to at least acknowledge he was poor on the weekend gives you zero credibility on any subject concerning Langdon |
Just so we're clear on this, here's what I posted about the two Cripps goals on page 2 of this thread last Sunday, when I reviewed the defending goal by goal:
| Pies4shaw wrote: | Fourth Carlton goal - Greenwood gets outmarked by Dow (!!!) who runs clear and kicks long to McGovern. Langdon spoils him. The ball comes to ground, where Cripps is running unopposed, thirty metres from goal (thanks Reidy for trying to chase him - God knows where his man was). There is a chain of quick possessions by Carlton - for unfathomable reasons, Langdon keeps chasing, all the way to the goal square, where the ball finally comes to Silvagni at the end of a 5 on 1. Our midfield was apparently working to rule. Moore and Pendlebury also make a bee-line for the goal square, where they don't tackle anyone, either. Those that understand the game know that it was Langdon's fault.
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Eleventh Carlton goal - This is the one that you all noticed. Greenwood has followed his man to our half-forward line. Why is anybody's guess because he can't catch him, even down there, in a pack. Grundy is tackled. Dow is somehow ten yards clear of Treloar, who still has chase-a-phobia, and runs away with the spillage. He kicks long, Langdon tries to take a chest mark (which he shouldn't have done) but Silvagni spoils. He beats Silvagni pointless on the ground and knocks the ball forward. Crisp misses the tackle on Cunningham. The ball comes out to Cripps who - as part of our affirmative action plan - is again running unmarked at goal. Those that understand the game know that it was Langdon's fault.
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You're correct that Silvagni spoiled - I had the 4th goal in mind.
You will notice that my review identifies a series of errors (including Langdon's attempt at a chest mark) that led to the goal. Greenwood in the wrong place, Treloar not chasing, the Future Captain making an incorrect decision in the marking contest, the Future Captain demonstrating his presence of mind by pouncing on the ball and clearing it to a contest where Crisp misses a tackle and then, as I said, "The ball comes out to Cripps who - as part of our affirmative action plan - is again running unmarked at goal."
Which part of that do you actually disagree with? I reviewed every goal to identify Langdon's role in each because the whole purpose of the OP was to identify him as particularly at fault on Saturday. That just isn't correct on any reasonable analysis.
If you watch the replay of that eleventh Carlton goal closely, the coverage shows it from about 5 angles - the third shows how well Langdon worked the ball on the ground to recover after his mistake and how badly Crisp missed the tackle and the fourth (from behind the goals) shows our mids (not Grundy but our actual "runners") about 30 metres back towards the centre jogging towards the play as the goal is kicked. Everyone knows that Langdon should have tried to take the mark with his arms outstretched. My point is that there were several mistakes by Collingwood players in that passage that led to the goal. Langdon was nowhere near the most culpable.
More significantly, there were a number of goals caused by rank stupidity, such as when Moore just decided he wouldn't stand the mark with MacKay 60 metres from goal, so MacKay ran in and kicked it from 50. There could be an entire thread devoted to that - but people prefer not to focus on Moore making a kindergarten error because we'd like to think he isn't that inept. Happily for us, he mostly isn't.
The thing that entire threads could be devoted to is why our quicker mids start looking like they're suddenly running through treacle when they "chase" back. At the time - and after watching both those goals on replay - I couldn't believe how our mids gave Cripps so much space on the run - not in close at the stoppage but in the open field where he isn't particularly good and certainly not special (he has only ever kicked 3 goals in a game once and he goes at less than half a goal a game so letting him get one and create one with running to space was a very big fail by our mids). He isn't Cyril Rioli or Aaron Davey - he's just a big-bodied mid who was left to run 30 yards clear of the people who were supposed to run with him, twice - both times for goals. |
our mids looked tired. Like they were one or two rotations down. I wonder if this had anything to do with the fact that Wills was such a liability out there that we only used him sparingly. Maybe that caught up with the other mids. Or maybe we had a hard week on the track knowing we were only playing Carlton. Or maybe its hard, even for Collingwood, to cover the loss of two of our best mids (Beams and Adams). Whatever it was, our failing on the weekend, to the extent there was one was the failure of our mids to run out the game. They just didn't get across the ground the way i am used to seeing.
Don't get me wrong, Langdon exerted very little of the usual influence he normally exerts on a game (and he is pretty consistent so it stood out a little to me), so some of the blame must fall to him. But all of it??????
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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E & P4S
I wasn't saying Langdon was our only poor player on the weekend he had a few mates for sure who didn't play well
I didn't get into this topic straightaway I actually went and rewatched the game
It's no secret I'm not a fan of his but I can only see him down for 2 errors that cost goals
We played for exactly 10 minutes of the game and won which probably says more about them than us really
I still believe he isn't the answers at hbf for us but that's my opinion and I know you both disagree and that's fine I don't mind some debate and conflicting ideas
I'm more concerned about our inability to really string 4 quarters together at the moment
Hopefully we are saving those games for the best sides |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | Just for some reason I decided to watch the last quarter over again
I noticed that Langdon started on the bench in the last term and remained there for 9 minutes 30 seconds
In that time Carlton never had a forward entry inside 50 or scored a point
He came on and 40 seconds later he is beaten in a one on one contest by Silvagni the ball spills to ground goes t Cripps who bangs it through for a goal
Within 4 minutes of Langdon being back on the field Carlton boot 3 goals
(not blaming him for the other 2 goals)
With Fox IQ you can rewind and look over things which I love
Crisp moved up to the wing in the last term when Langdon came back on and booted a goal
With around 4 minutes to go we are inside our attacking 50 there is a boundary throw in. The wide shot shows Carlton only have 4 men in advance of the ball. There is 1 Carlton player standing by himself with no Pies player within 20 meters of him.
Pendles surveys the field as the boundary umpire is gathering the ball and you see him screaming at Langdon and pointing to the unmanned Carlton player. Langdon looks around and jogs off in the direction of the player
We lose the contest and Carlton bang it forward to the middle of the ground where Howe had to leave his man and spoil the ball away from the free Carlton player (Langdon's opponent)
The ball rebounds forward and we kick a goal.
The camera goes to the coaches box and Bucks is screaming into the phone and clearly really annoyed at something he saw
The runner goes out to Sidey who's on the closest wing
Sidey then runs back and you see clearly he's giving Langdon a dressing down and pointing to that player again
Our on field leaders clearly had noticed Langdon wasn't covering his man as instructed and the coach saw the same thing and with us only up by 1 point at that time t clearly upset the coach
Go watch the vision yourself it quite damning really and highlights how Langdon gets lost in the transition of the game so often |
Great analysis, Qld. I have Kayo, so i can rewind too and have a look at the incident you have cited. I remember seeing Bucks really angry after we kicked that goal, and the TV commentators also commented on it, but did not know the reasons.
However, i have noticed that you only subject to such scrutiny Langdon's errors, and never subject to the same scrutiny his brilliant plays, of which there are many examples. While you don't do that, your assessment of Tom Langdon always seems biased, unfair and therefore flawed. |
there were zero redeeming aspects to Langdon's game against Carlton. Alert everybody!! Confine the analysis to the Carlton game versus bringing retrospective matches into the argument
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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It seemed his first instinct is to handball backwards rather than some how kill the contest. I was in panic every time he got the ball on saturday.
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | E & P4S
I wasn't saying Langdon was our only poor player on the weekend he had a few mates for sure who didn't play well
I didn't get into this topic straightaway I actually went and rewatched the game
It's no secret I'm not a fan of his but I can only see him down for 2 errors that cost goals
We played for exactly 10 minutes of the game and won which probably says more about them than us really
I still believe he isn't the answers at hbf for us but that's my opinion and I know you both disagree and that's fine I don't mind some debate and conflicting ideas
I'm more concerned about our inability to really string 4 quarters together at the moment
Hopefully we are saving those games for the best sides |
Noted mate. My posts weren't directed at you (other than the Matrix joke, which i thought was bloody funny). As you and I have agreed many times, we all have our opinions and are most certainly entitled to them. But do you at least agree that Langdon was frick'n awesome last September when the predicament was most dire (given injuries) and the pressure was at its hottest?
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| E wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | E & P4S
I wasn't saying Langdon was our only poor player on the weekend he had a few mates for sure who didn't play well
I didn't get into this topic straightaway I actually went and rewatched the game
It's no secret I'm not a fan of his but I can only see him down for 2 errors that cost goals
We played for exactly 10 minutes of the game and won which probably says more about them than us really
I still believe he isn't the answers at hbf for us but that's my opinion and I know you both disagree and that's fine I don't mind some debate and conflicting ideas
I'm more concerned about our inability to really string 4 quarters together at the moment
Hopefully we are saving those games for the best sides |
Noted mate. My posts weren't directed at you (other than the Matrix joke, which i thought was bloody funny). As you and I have agreed many times, we all have our opinions and are most certainly entitled to them. But do you at least agree that Langdon was frick'n awesome last September when the predicament was most dire (given injuries) and the pressure was at its hottest? |
I will happily admit that Langdon (along with all our defenders) played very well through September when we were crushed by injuries to our defensive unit
I see Langdon do some good things each week. I've often commented on his courage and determination during the game day thread
My concerns about him are purely about his inability (as I see it) to read a game well and his below standard skills when he has the ball
Mate I never take things personally we are all entitled to opinions no matter how wrong yours and P4S are on this subject 😂😂😂 |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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STICK TO THE CARLTON GAME!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I did. He is a gun. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | E wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | E & P4S
I wasn't saying Langdon was our only poor player on the weekend he had a few mates for sure who didn't play well
I didn't get into this topic straightaway I actually went and rewatched the game
It's no secret I'm not a fan of his but I can only see him down for 2 errors that cost goals
We played for exactly 10 minutes of the game and won which probably says more about them than us really
I still believe he isn't the answers at hbf for us but that's my opinion and I know you both disagree and that's fine I don't mind some debate and conflicting ideas
I'm more concerned about our inability to really string 4 quarters together at the moment
Hopefully we are saving those games for the best sides |
Noted mate. My posts weren't directed at you (other than the Matrix joke, which i thought was bloody funny). As you and I have agreed many times, we all have our opinions and are most certainly entitled to them. But do you at least agree that Langdon was frick'n awesome last September when the predicament was most dire (given injuries) and the pressure was at its hottest? |
I will happily admit that Langdon (along with all our defenders) played very well through September when we were crushed by injuries to our defensive unit
I see Langdon do some good things each week. I've often commented on his courage and determination during the game day thread
My concerns about him are purely about his inability (as I see it) to read a game well and his below standard skills when he has the ball
Mate I never take things personally we are all entitled to opinions no matter how wrong yours and P4S are on this subject 😂😂😂 |
its funny, while i agree with you that his disposal ability is limited, i couldnt disagree with you more on his reading the game. I think he is one of the best in the business at reading the game and knowing where to be. So even though he is glacially slow, he is still able to get to more contests than most and (importantly), get to contests to help teammates in their efforts to nullify a contest.
anyway, i better stop writing now, otherwise allcaps will send us another note demanding that we talk only about things she wants to talk about.
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| inxs88 wrote: | | STICK TO THE CARLTON GAME! |
Why? What does one below average game tell you, anyway? And there are many ways to interpret what happened in the Carlton game anyway. E has put forward a different explanation of what and why Pendles was yelling at Tom Langdon. To demand that we stick to the Carlton game only is really a demand that we adhere to your interpretation only, and in a single game only. That seems a very, very narrow prism of judgement, so narrow in fact that no light can get through whatsoever.
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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I thought Langdon was poor last week but he's been very good every other week so far this season.
Our defence was exposed last week because in the first half especially we did a poor job of retaining the ball within our f50 while our midfielders across the first 3 quarters were struggling to stop Carlton winning clean clearances and Carlton were often able to find space and time through the corridor as a result.
A lot of that came about because of our work rate or lack thereof and we didn't exceed the desire levels of Carlton until late in the last quarter.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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It’s the old story. If it was that easy, we would all be doing it.
There isn’t a defender in the comp who doesn’t make at least a couple blues a game. Defenders don’t even have the boundary line as their friend anymore.
If posters are going to continue to focus only on their victim of choice ( and that’s not just Langdon ) then it will forever remain easy to find fault at least a couple times a game. |
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Johnno75
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Wantirna
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What a start!!!!!
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Human behavioural studies suggest people who use a lot of swear words tend to be more honest & trustworthy. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies2016 wrote: | It’s the old story. If it was that easy, we would all be doing it.
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Everyone on the internet is a genius and sporting superstar, didn't you know that? 
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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I guess the dumb push to Gresham resulting in a goal was bad luck!
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