Progressive Politics

[Pies4shaw]

Don't call David. He'll call you.

[David]

[David]

Just saw this short video of the late David Graeber talking about centrism and thought of this thread. Reckon he sums up the status quo of contemporary two-party political systems pretty well:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-9afwZON8dU

[roar]

^^ That was a very interesting and morbidly funny view of the current situation. Thanks for posting it, David..

[stui magpie]

^

Ditto, as far as political commentary goes, pretty sharp.

[pietillidie]

He's right in terms of general herd behaviour, but there is a sophisticated market/bureaucratic thesis, which he waves away with a straw man at the beginning.

[David]

While I’m sure he’d disagree with your view on that (from what I know of his work), I don’t think he’s dismissing the possibility of an effective market/bureaucratic synthesis here so much as describing how such political forces are and tend to operate right now. While there are at least some meaningful differences between the policy agendas of, say, Blair and Obama, and Macron and Albanese, can we say confidently that there are any major centre or centre-left political parties in the Western world that don’t function exactly as he describes? And can you say that any of them are effectively prosecuting (or, if in opposition, arguing for) a positive and transformative agenda?

[pietillidie]

[David]

I guess this is the crux of it: what constitutes 10%? None of his supporters thought Sanders would usher in a new Eden, but did hope that he would work to shift US policy forward in significant and urgently needed ways. Biden marks an improvement on the wrecking ball that was Trump and has undone some of the damage he wrought, but I think the real measure of his success is whether he can be said to offer 10% (or, hell, 5%) improvement on the highly dysfunctional pre-Trump situation in 2016. If not, then the country is in a holding pattern at best – and quite possibly a lot worse off than that because of the likelihood that the next Republican administration undoes any marginal improvements and does a whole lot more than that. Same story here over the past 20+ years. And that reality reflects Graeber’s argument: you have one party offering to protect people from the dangerous backsliders opposite while not achieving much of anything when they get their turn at the wheel.

What a lot of countries – particularly the US – clearly need right now at the very least is a period under a Whitlam-style government that can achieve a lot in a short time, so that even if not everything sticks, a significant leap forward is still locked in. (An actually functional Whitlam government that can defend its gains and stick around in office would be even better still.) Gains that are too incremental won’t cut it when the situation is as dysfunctional as it is. So, yes, 10% might be something to hang one’s hat on. But is Biden really offering that?

[pietillidie]

This poll perhaps gets to the crux of the matter: only 25% of Dems and 6% of Trumplicans rate inequality as their primary economic concern. That's nowhere near enough people worried about the biggest problem of the lot.

That 25% makes the Dems meaningfully preferable without being enough to fix the problem, thus the periodic lashing out at the 'centre'. But it's a hopeless equation anyhow if only 6% of the religious nutters on the other side are moved by it, if not being radically driven to oppose anything that might alleviate it.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/566297-poll-inflation-named-as-top-economic-concern-among-voters

[stui magpie]

This is as good a place as any for this.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-14/twitter-social-media-bullies-political-journalism/100458714

Lee Sales, ABC Journo, calls out the Left on Twitter.

Couple of selected pieces.

[David]

Completely agree with the last suggestion, but that’s entirely the fault of lazy journalists, not "the left".

Also, I don’t doubt what she’s saying she’s experienced is true, but it really does sound like her issue is with ALP partisans. Not trying to nitpick, but their lack of actual ideological conviction is surely a key part of the point here: it’s team-first thinking like that that sees enemies in anyone who goes against the Divine Word of Saint Dan and friends. Personally, I feel like it’d be nice to see them stop standing with Dan and start standing for some of the many important causes their party is failing on, but I guess that’d take more effort than being a 24/7 Twitter reply guy.

(Also, much more could – and I suppose will, in response to this article – be said about the problem with Sales’ ultimately chummy relationship with politicians vs her antipathy for the unwashed masses outside that professional bubble, but that’s another matter.)

[stui magpie]

Agree,

It's not an indictment on all Left Leaning people, it's an observation about a subset, particularly Labor fanbois and gurls who inhabit Twitter.

The example of the restriction of movement was a good one. You could make a balanced argument about why border closures are wrong and also why they're necessary but simply viciously attacking anyone who criticises decisions made by your political party of choice isn't the sign of a balanced human.

[Pies4shaw]

One might quibble about the tenuous connection between the ALP and "progressive politics", too, of course.

[stui magpie]

^

Fair comment, I don't believe I made that link even tenuously.