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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Fino wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | Just back from the game and dinner and have browsed through this thread. Not one poster has identified why we lost the game. Not one.
Unsurprisingly, for this site and from the usual suspects it is blame the coach and sack the coach. To be fair, as each week passes, it is becoming less and less likely that Buckley will keep his job, but posters seriously need wake up to themselves if they think we lost the game because of the coach. We could have had the best coach in the world coaching us today and we wouldn't have won.
We lost the game for three main reasons:
1) our skill execution was horrendous and as professional sportspeople the majority our players should be embarassed with the skill errors they served up today,
2) our decision making was appalling, the numbers of times our players chose the wrong option if you didn't see it, you wouldn't have believed it,
3) our much vaunted midfield should be ashamed of themselves. They were made to look like amateurs by one of, if not, the worst midfields in the competition. Going into the game we were the 2nd best stoppage/clearance side in the comp and they were 17th. Watching that game, you would have sworn the rankings were the opposite.
Despite all of our skill errors, dumb decisions and the worst performance of the year from our midfield, we still had our chances to win the game.
We are world champions at gifting goals to the opposition. All season we have worked our butts off to either get in front or stay level with our opponents or come from behind and in each and every situation just when we have the momentum or look like we have the momentum, we gift goals to the opposition. The end of the second quarter today was another example, we are on top, 4 goals to one in the quarter, to get back to level, then we gift 2 goals to Hawthorn in two minutes. One from rubbish play by in the middle and the other from rubbish play by our defenders.
A team cannot and will not win games of football in such an even competition against reasonable opposition if you gift your opponents multiple goals week in week out. Thus, you Buckley haters, even if we get a new coach, unless we cut out the gifting of multiple goals to the opponents week in week out, then we aren't moving up the ladder.
The positives of the day were De Goey, he was brilliant playing full time midfield and showed how good he is going to be. Josh Thomas had an excellent game in his first game back. Tom Langdon's 2nd half, especially his last quarter was very good and the signs are good he is close to getting back to his best. Mason Cox was good when the ball was kicked to him and it was great to see him kick straight. |
Good analysis.
We were beaten in clearances +5. Isolated. The other two reasons aren't.
Why are the players' skills so horrible?
Why do the players consistently make the wrong decisions?
They are persistent issues. Buckley isn't paid the money he is to just identify the issues. You've done a great job at doing it for free. He needs to rectify them. He's had 6 years to do so. |
In school, business and life, there are consequences for poor performance. You fail, get fired or lose. For too long we have allowed the so called "elite" Pies players get away with butchering the ball! Yes that is you:
* Sidearse
* Treloar
* Adams
* Greenwood
* Crisp
Am sure Ron Barassi in his day would have court martialed the above with:
* extra 6am sessions on Sunday to fix up OR
* dropped to the Reserves OR
* threat of being traded
Players? If you're on $600,000+ it is your job and a standard to hit targets 80% of the time by foot not a long term goal! Modern day Gen Y guys and millennials have got to harden the f...ck up and be feared of loss into improvement!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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Ioannina
Joined: 18 Sep 2014
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All this years i wanted bucks to leave..but now i want him to stay..he is our only hope for us to win the wooden spoon...
also i think he is a genius in maths..we can still make it to the finals.. |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| mudlark wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | Just back from the game and dinner and have browsed through this thread. Not one poster has identified why we lost the game. Not one.
Unsurprisingly, for this site and from the usual suspects it is blame the coach and sack the coach. To be fair, as each week passes, it is becoming less and less likely that Buckley will keep his job, but posters seriously need wake up to themselves if they think we lost the game because of the coach. We could have had the best coach in the world coaching us today and we wouldn't have won.
We lost the game for three main reasons:
1) our skill execution was horrendous and as professional sportspeople the majority our players should be embarassed with the skill errors they served up today,
2) our decision making was appalling, the numbers of times our players chose the wrong option if you didn't see it, you wouldn't have believed it,
3) our much vaunted midfield should be ashamed of themselves. They were made to look like amateurs by one of, if not, the worst midfields in the competition. Going into the game we were the 2nd best stoppage/clearance side in the comp and they were 17th. Watching that game, you would have sworn the rankings were the opposite.
Despite all of our skill errors, dumb decisions and the worst performance of the year from our midfield, we still had our chances to win the game.
We are world champions at gifting goals to the opposition. All season we have worked our butts off to either get in front or stay level with our opponents or come from behind and in each and every situation just when we have the momentum or look like we have the momentum, we gift goals to the opposition. The end of the second quarter today was another example, we are on top, 4 goals to one in the quarter, to get back to level, then we gift 2 goals to Hawthorn in two minutes. One from rubbish play by in the middle and the other from rubbish play by our defenders.
A team cannot and will not win games of football in such an even competition against reasonable opposition if you gift your opponents multiple goals week in week out. Thus, you Buckley haters, even if we get a new coach, unless we cut out the gifting of multiple goals to the opponents week in week out, then we aren't moving up the ladder.
The positives of the day were De Goey, he was brilliant playing full time midfield and showed how good he is going to be. Josh Thomas had an excellent game in his first game back. Tom Langdon's 2nd half, especially his last quarter was very good and the signs are good he is close to getting back to his best. Mason Cox was good when the ball was kicked to him and it was great to see him kick straight. |
I think you've lost sight of the forest there matey.Skill and execution errors come down to coaching. Don't you think? You keep selecting players who lack the basic skills required comes down to the coach and selectors.The lack of confidence within the playing group, who we know can fire at times, comes down to the non existent game plan that has them going all the way back to the defensive 10 yard square from the half forward flank.They are poorly schooled in what is required.It comes down to the coach. Who tells them to handball to someone in the middle of 3 opposition players? Who coaches the ruckman to palm the ball towards the opposition goal when we are running the other way?? The coach and the selectors.You're wrong, plain and simple. |
I am not going to rehash my comments from the role of the player v the role of the coach thread, except to say, footballers are professional sportspeople, and its their job, which they are paid extremely well for, to execute on game day. Our players scored 2 out of 10 for their job performance today, thus sir or madam, you are the one that is wrong, plain and simple.
Last edited by mooretreloar on Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
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I'm sitting here trying to find the words to sum up what I'm feeling, but all I can come up with is 'emptiness'. I love this club and I desperately want them all to achieve success but it's not going to happen under the current coaching set up. We all seem to be coming to that conclusion now. Buckley speaks like a broken man who knows the end is nigh and the honourable thing for him to do right now would be to step aside and allow someone else take over.
We destroy ourselves week in week out with our ineffective disposal, poor judgement, shocking skills, inability to maintain pressure and generate momentum for long periods of time, not manning up and bad kicking for goal. This has gone on for 6 years and will not change under the current regime.
We have players who are capable and others who are questionable. When the game is there to be won we don't have the ability to find another gear to win. Today was a perfect example of that. We were still in it but didn't want it as much as the whorks did. It was almost like we gave up in the end. |
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dalyc 
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| ROB wrote: | | The playing talent is at the club - we just need to harness it. Who can do that consistently remains to be seen but it is there IMHO. |
Nah. There's some players over-rated by us, and over-paid by the club.
_________________
Four legged animals good, two legged animals better |
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Rayza
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
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| ROB wrote: | | how much responsibility do the assistant coaches take in the demise of our on field performance? Did Buckley get to choose or were these personnel put on him to work with? Noting we rarely win an area of the field for an entire game these assistants are responsible for, I would be thinking most of these people would also be on notice if Buckley is moved on. |
All the assistants would be hand picked by Bucks and any new coach, unless they are in a caretaker role, would choose their own assistants.
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DNA National Dislexic Association |
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dalyc
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| thompsoc wrote: | God you are boring Mooretreloar.
We lost because a little bugger in Clarko put out a game plan
that was better than the one Bux adhered to all day.
We had the better side.
But as usual Clako won the day.
What is it now 10/1 in Ckarko's favour. |
MT provides reasoned analysis whether you agree with it or not. You just provide shrill and repetitive rhetoric.
So we had the better side today? Judging by earlier comments from you regarding our list management I'd hVe thought you would have seen how badly many of our players performed. MT is right. Poor execution, poor decision making, gifted goals.
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Four legged animals good, two legged animals better |
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winpies
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Post subject: Re: pies loss to Hawks | |
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| orie wrote: | Another bitterly disappointing game to watch. Turnovers from poor kicking and poor decision making. The other thing that irked me was when Coxy kicked a goal and about 4 or 5 dorks started roughing him up and pushing him around. No one came in to remonstrate . Darcy Moore was close by and just watched and Steele arrived a little later. That was typical of the lack of physicality in our players. When Roughy missed an easy goal, no reaction from anyone.
There is no fire in the belly. I love my boys and Bucks and I don't think acking Bucks is the answer. I think we have too many players who are not hard enough for a start. |
This!!! I said the same thing to my son. Where was the support?
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carn the mighty pies! |
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Horatio Fin
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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| Fino wrote: |
Buckley isn't paid the money he is to just identify the issues. You've done a great job at doing it for free. He needs to rectify them. He's had 6 years to do so. |
^ this. |
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Bucks2014
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
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Showed today how reliant we are on our very good players. Howey had a shocker, Pendles our only A grader was just a bit off. Jamie was never going to be the match winner as predicted after missing a few games.
Still think Cox can be dangerous if kicked to his advantage, he had no hope once Moore was injured. Can't ruck and be full forward at the same time.
Degoey was a raging bull today and played an absolute ripper game.
I'm just glad it's nearly over and we can start a new next year. Same crap every week when we lose, handball to opponents 3 metres away. Continually miss targets, how does this happen basically every week.
It's been deceiving as some thought we had improved this year, we hadn't be blown away until last week. The reason is because there aren't any standout teams this year. Heaven help the comp though if GWS start getting more players back.
Really wanted the succession plan to work, I said to my wife today it's either the coach who has to go or half the side. Well if it's half the side it's another rebuild, 5 year plan. Just hope whoever it is next year can work a miracle.
The first 5 minutes were great hitting targets, as soon as the Hawks applied some pressure ie: started winning the clearances and applying pressure we just went the usual way of being turn over kings. To be fair they did too, we just did it more often.
Going on what I've seen the last 2 weeks, I just can't see us winning another game this year.
So who is the number 1 pick this year? Hope there is a standout KPP ready to play to help out young Darcy.
_________________
"Still waiting for your call Caroline ... not a quote in sight. Don't ever presume to speak on Collingwood's behalf," |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| dalyc wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | God you are boring Mooretreloar.
We lost because a little bugger in Clarko put out a game plan
that was better than the one Bux adhered to all day.
We had the better side.
But as usual Clako won the day.
What is it now 10/1 in Ckarko's favour. |
MT provides reasoned analysis whether you agree with it or not. You just provide shrill and repetitive rhetoric.
So we had the better side today? Judging by earlier comments from you regarding our list management I'd hVe thought you would have seen how badly many of our players performed. MT is right. Poor execution, poor decision making, gifted goals. |
All day they had up to 8 players in our forward line and we had 5.
All frigging day.
And who was marshalling the troups ...yep The sniper Hodge.
And did we do anything to change things up.
Nope.
I spent the day looking at the Hawks setup.
It was the old MM lock on things ....around the boundary line with quick movement.
Hawks are a crap team.
Just starting to rebuild, but they can beat us in year 1 and we are now in year 6.
Spare me please.
Poor execution, poor decision making and blah blah blah
That happens every week.
I thought the interesting thing was that we scored I think up to 3 quarter time every score on Hawks turnovers and not one from stoppages.
Hawks were crap at disposals and that stat showed it.
But we still got busted
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| mooretreloar wrote: | Just back from the game and dinner and have browsed through this thread. Not one poster has identified why we lost the game. Not one.
Unsurprisingly, for this site and from the usual suspects it is blame the coach and sack the coach. To be fair, as each week passes, it is becoming less and less likely that Buckley will keep his job, but posters seriously need wake up to themselves if they think we lost the game because of the coach. We could have had the best coach in the world coaching us today and we wouldn't have won.
We lost the game for three main reasons:
1) our skill execution was horrendous and as professional sportspeople the majority our players should be embarassed with the skill errors they served up today,
2) our decision making was appalling, the numbers of times our players chose the wrong option if you didn't see it, you wouldn't have believed it,
3) our much vaunted midfield should be ashamed of themselves. They were made to look like amateurs by one of, if not, the worst midfields in the competition. Going into the game we were the 2nd best stoppage/clearance side in the comp and they were 17th. Watching that game, you would have sworn the rankings were the opposite.
Despite all of our skill errors, dumb decisions and the worst performance of the year from our midfield, we still had our chances to win the game.
We are world champions at gifting goals to the opposition. All season we have worked our butts off to either get in front or stay level with our opponents or come from behind and in each and every situation just when we have the momentum or look like we have the momentum, we gift goals to the opposition. The end of the second quarter today was another example, we are on top, 4 goals to one in the quarter, to get back to level, then we gift 2 goals to Hawthorn in two minutes. One from rubbish play by in the middle and the other from rubbish play by our defenders.
A team cannot and will not win games of football in such an even competition against reasonable opposition if you gift your opponents multiple goals week in week out. Thus, you Buckley haters, even if we get a new coach, unless we cut out the gifting of multiple goals to the opponents week in week out, then we aren't moving up the ladder.
The positives of the day were De Goey, he was brilliant playing full time midfield and showed how good he is going to be. Josh Thomas had an excellent game in his first game back. Tom Langdon's 2nd half, especially his last quarter was very good and the signs are good he is close to getting back to his best. Mason Cox was good when the ball was kicked to him and it was great to see him kick straight. |
So why can't this wonder coach get some cohesion, some skills, some smarts into the team?
This is buckleys team now, no one is on this team without his say so. Nobody played today that did not have his ok. And yet, you still insist he is not part of the problem?
He's a clever man, a perfectionist, perhaps too clever and too rigid for your typical footy player. It's not working. I am so disappointed today. Marks that should not be dropped any day of the week. Dinky kicks, yes you Sidebottom, Howe kicking straight to their forward, two goals scored because no one was home in defence, soft as butter tackling, not manning up, and kicking backwards with minutes to go, junk time goals to the other team, two in about 90 sec. takes DeGoey off with 5 min left, and still a chance? and the coach is only 2% responsible? Then sack about 50% of the damn spoilt pampered under achieving over paid hacks. And yet we thrashed fourth placed geeeelong. This team has talent, and some times heart.
We need KPPs, big ones. This year is gone. Full review should start right now. Everyone, every player, every person in the club should justify their position now. Fitness. Bulking up. Start now.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land
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| It was noticible in the last quarter when the game was on the line that the players just went missing.There was a real lack of intensity as well as skill.You could see that the Hawthorn players wanted it so much more.What does this say about the players,and are they playing for the coach?Do they want him to stay on as coach? |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| doriswilgus wrote: | | It was noticible in the last quarter when the game was on the line that the players just went missing.There was a real lack of intensity as well as skill.You could see that the Hawthorn players wanted it so much more.What does this say about the players,and are they playing for the coach?Do they want him to stay on as coach? |
They got it too easy! Big salaries and finish for the year in August!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| dalyc wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | God you are boring Mooretreloar.
We lost because a little bugger in Clarko put out a game plan
that was better than the one Bux adhered to all day.
We had the better side.
But as usual Clako won the day.
What is it now 10/1 in Ckarko's favour. |
MT provides reasoned analysis whether you agree with it or not. You just provide shrill and repetitive rhetoric.
So we had the better side today? Judging by earlier comments from you regarding our list management I'd hVe thought you would have seen how badly many of our players performed. MT is right. Poor execution, poor decision making, gifted goals. |
You need to go beyond poor execution, poor decision making and gifted goals to explain the loss. We played well in individual patches but we weren't the better team. Treloar and Sidebottom are good players so why are the players making mistakes? If you just keep the onus on the players to rectify their mistakes and wait for the improvement, I'm sorry it ain't going to happen. The coaching staff get paid a lot of money to prime the players to play their best as a team and so far it hasn't happened this year. You can keep churning out the same reasons for the poor form, but at some point of time you have to face the facts that the team needs a different approach. We tried changing the team around with a different playing group. That didn't work.We've tried different football managers, a different fitness manager and numerous changes to the assistant coaches. That didn't work. I think it's obvious we need a new senior coach while recognising he did the best he could with a difficult hand over and a horrendous injury list over a 2-3 year period. |
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