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panga 
Joined: 22 May 2003
Location: Collingwood :)
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In rebuttal to your argument Dave, and in support of Dave and Dave's arguments:
I don't think many others in the team work as hard or commit themselves as well as Toovey. I also don't think we have any defenders would could have played a better shutdown game than he did yesterday.
There you go Dave, Dave and Dave.
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | DaVe86 wrote: | | Dave...is Blight able to totally shut a player out of a game??? Not everyone can be about attack. |
Not Yet and That something he would work on but He won't turn it over as much as Toovey does and against Zoning Sides Blight would really be an Asset with taking the game on and long kicking to break the Zone |
DTM, you are mad. Our defence is bloody drowning in attacking run-it-out defenders who can be very scary for the opposition on the rebound, and even scarier for us when they have te damn ball:
- Nick Maxwell
- Heath Shaw
- Ben Reid
- Harry
- Ben Johnson
That leaves two - count 'em two genuine defenders in the classic mould (Presti and Tooves) and no less than FIVE loose-checking, exploitable run-it-out merchants.
No wonder some sides give us a thrashing! We need more genuine defenders like Toovey, not more brilliant but sloppy risk-taking players like Heater and Maxwell who get too many goals kicked on them.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Tannin wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | DaVe86 wrote: | | Dave...is Blight able to totally shut a player out of a game??? Not everyone can be about attack. |
Not Yet and That something he would work on but He won't turn it over as much as Toovey does and against Zoning Sides Blight would really be an Asset with taking the game on and long kicking to break the Zone |
DTM, you are mad. Our defence is bloody drowning in attacking run-it-out defenders who can be very scary for the opposition on the rebound, and even scarier for us when they have te damn ball:
- Nick Maxwell
- Heath Shaw
- Ben Reid
- Harry
- Ben Johnson
That leaves two - count 'em two genuine defenders in the classic mould (Presti and Tooves) and no less than FIVE loose-checking, exploitable run-it-out merchants.
No wonder some sides give us a thrashing! We need more genuine defenders like Toovey, not more brilliant but sloppy risk-taking players like Heater and Maxwell who get too many goals kicked on them. |
Ben Johnson? The Last 2 Weeks he has been a Clanger Machine
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^ irrelevant.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the point of my post.
Now, how about you stop ducking the question and explain to us why adding yet another loose-checking, running defender and dropping the next-to last of our genuine shut-down defenders is a good idea?
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Tannin wrote: | ^ irrelevant.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the point of my post.
Now, how about you stop ducking the question and explain to us why adding yet another loose-checking, running defender and dropping the next-to last of our genuine shut-down defenders is a good idea? |
Well I agree he is a Shut Down Defender but then he Negates that with his Poor Disposal
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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Tannin, in Dave's defence, even though he is one of ounly negating players, that doesn't mean he can be excused for bad disposal.
However, I do agree with you that he should be kept in the team at this stage. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Now we are on the same page.
So ... where are the shut-down defenders who can damn well kick? Where are the attacking defenders who can damn well shut a player down? Why haven't we brought any on of late?
Harry was looking good to be a genuine all-round defender, but he is playing crap this year - way, way too many mistakes, and I don't like all that weight he is carrying.
Heater goes into brain-fade mode far too often.
Nick Maxwell has never learned hoiw to shut a man down.
Sigh. It goes on. We haven't had a genuine all-round defender who can blanket a player and hurt them going the other way since the great Jimmy Clement retired. Presti is as close as we come today - he's a great shut-down FB and better than we realise on those rare occassions when he goes for a run up to the wing.
I blame the coaching staff. Too much emphasis on attack, they need to remember that a defender's FIRST duty is to defend.
PS: maybe the return of Goldie can answer my prayers. If he ever gets fit again.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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OEP 
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | ^ irrelevant.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the point of my post.
Now, how about you stop ducking the question and explain to us why adding yet another loose-checking, running defender and dropping the next-to last of our genuine shut-down defenders is a good idea? |
Well I agree he is a Shut Down Defender but then he Negates that with his Poor Disposal |
Oh what a load of horse sh!t DTM. You make it sound like every time he touches the bloody he turns it over. Utter crap.
Toovey's ability to shut down his opponent while still staying involved offensively led to a number of goal in both the third and fourth quarters, be it directly or from being the initial point in a chain of possessions that led to a goal.
So this harping about him having constantly poor disposal completely false.
Maybe if you watch Toovey play next week instead of just speculating on his play during the game you'll at least have a more informed perspective when you sledge him again after next weeks game.
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A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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OEP, Toovey stuffed it up badly a few times on a row yesterday, it's not false at all.
He is proving to be good shut down type player at this stage, however, he needs more than one string to his bow.
That said, I do agree with you that his disposal is not always bad. |
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OEP
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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| Joel wrote: | OEP, Toovey stuffed it up badly a few times on a row yesterday, it's not false at all.
He is proving to be good shut down type player at this stage, however, he needs more than one string to his bow.
That said, I do agree with you that his disposal is not always bad. |
I agree he did make some bad errors last night but so did quite a few other players from both teams.
I get pissed off when people (DTM) make out as if the blokes disposal is poor all the time. It isn't and remember, like Ball, Toovey does a lot of his work in close where there's plenty of pressure being applied.
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A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| OEP wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | ^ irrelevant.
Nothing whatsoever to do with the point of my post.
Now, how about you stop ducking the question and explain to us why adding yet another loose-checking, running defender and dropping the next-to last of our genuine shut-down defenders is a good idea? |
Well I agree he is a Shut Down Defender but then he Negates that with his Poor Disposal |
Oh what a load of horse sh!t DTM. You make it sound like every time he touches the bloody he turns it over. Utter crap.
Toovey's ability to shut down his opponent while still staying involved offensively led to a number of goal in both the third and fourth quarters, be it directly or from being the initial point in a chain of possessions that led to a goal.
So this harping about him having constantly poor disposal completely false.
Maybe if you watch Toovey play next week instead of just speculating on his play during the game you'll at least have a more informed perspective when you sledge him again after next weeks game. |
Well Let's Agree to Disagree. Well what I seen he misses his Target most of the Time and be very Dodgy against Good Sides. He can get away with it against Poorer Sides. Yes his Shut Down role he does Really well.
You do make a Good Example of Simmlar to Luke Ball but Toovey is More Outside Player(Rebound out of Defense) Then Ball(Inside Mid)
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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Wouldn't matter what Toovey did, the same knockers would still have a crack at him. Nearly half of his possessions (46%) are contested possessions which is well above the team average of 36%. Gee, isn't it surprising that someone who does more of their work under pressure turns it over more often. 
Toovey is ranked second for tackles for us and fifth for 1%ers. His disposal efficiency (66.9%) is on a par with Wellingham and well above that of Ball, Davis, and DAWES DTM 
To quote that wonderful Sage from the HS Mark Robinson:
"Their teammate, Alan Toovey, beat Brennan Stack senseless, and also held Mitch Hahn and Daniel Giansiracusa in turn, which is a fair night's work.
He will get a fair pat on the back from the coach, too, not just because he beat his opponents, but for how he went about it. He looks awkward, but has a big heart."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/davis-and-carringbush-back-from-hell/story-e6frf9jf-1225876231462 |
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Pied Piper 
Joined: 20 May 2003
Location: Pig City
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While everyone here acknowledges Toovey's limitations, it's instructive that almost no one questions his place in the side anymore. He's come a long way from being Nick's whipping boy a year or two ago.
The thing is, Toovey also knows his limitations, and plays as much as he can within those limitations. Nick Maxwell did much the same for years, building his confidence to the point where eventually he was able to add an attacking dimension to his game.
I think Alan Toovey is officially the most underrated player on our list. He's played just over 50 games. I will stick my neck out and predict he'll play another 100.
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"The greatest thing that could happen to the nation is when we get rid of all the media. Then we could live in peace and tranquillity, and no one would know anything." - Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen |
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OEP
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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| Pied Piper wrote: | While everyone here acknowledges Toovey's limitations, it's instructive that almost no one questions his place in the side anymore. He's come a long way from being Nick's whipping boy a year or two ago.
The thing is, Toovey also knows his limitations, and plays as much as he can within those limitations. Nick Maxwell did much the same for years, building his confidence to the point where eventually he was able to add an attacking dimension to his game.
I think Alan Toovey is officially the most underrated player on our list. He's played just over 50 games. I will stick my neck out and predict he'll play another 100. |
More than happy to stick my neck out with you on that one.
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A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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Mossi 
Joined: 20 May 2002
Location: Vittorio Veneto TV Italy
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| OEP wrote: | | Pied Piper wrote: | While everyone here acknowledges Toovey's limitations, it's instructive that almost no one questions his place in the side anymore. He's come a long way from being Nick's whipping boy a year or two ago.
The thing is, Toovey also knows his limitations, and plays as much as he can within those limitations. Nick Maxwell did much the same for years, building his confidence to the point where eventually he was able to add an attacking dimension to his game.
I think Alan Toovey is officially the most underrated player on our list. He's played just over 50 games. I will stick my neck out and predict he'll play another 100. |
More than happy to stick my neck out with you on that one. |
+1
To help some of you critics out. Stop imagining Tooves as awkward! Just have a look at the replays and appreciate how he gets to contests reads the play and the difficult situations he find himself in when he has to dispose of the ball. See how he puts his body on line and how he stays on his feet and shepherds. Yes sure we all make mistakes but Tooves makes less than we think! |
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