The Real John Wren
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Hiss 
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
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| Post subject: oi |  |
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| buckstopswithbucks wrote: | Ha ha.. Oh I get it now.. ok ok
Hiss is our resident grumpy old man reminding us how he used to have to walk barefoot through 5 miles of snow to get to school every morning and how everything has gone to crap in a handbasket today  |
You are a plant and not entitled to a view. You attack me yet hide behind your true hatred of Collingwood and its great fans. You are guilty of treason.
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Doc63
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Newport
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| Post subject: Re: oi | |
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| Hiss wrote: | | buckstopswithbucks wrote: | Ha ha.. Oh I get it now.. ok ok
Hiss is our resident grumpy old man reminding us how he used to have to walk barefoot through 5 miles of snow to get to school every morning and how everything has gone to crap in a handbasket today |
You are a plant and not entitled to a view. You attack me yet hide behind your true hatred of Collingwood and its great fans. You are guilty of treason. |
Pot. Kettle. Hiss. |
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buckstopswithbucks
Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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| Post subject: Re: oi | |
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| Hiss wrote: | | You are guilty of treason. |
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1970
www.facebook.com/groups/knightsofabbotsford
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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Treason. Brilliant.
I think it is pretty cool that we can have people here who can give such detailed first hand accounts of someone like John Wren.
I remember watching the TV show years ago and every time he comes up for discussion here on Nick's I certainly learn a little more.
Good article by Martin Flanagan as well.
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Wren was a complex character. I've always viewed Wren as having both good and bad traits. Five generations of my family lived in Collingwood and they had close contact with Wren. In fact, when Frank Hardy wrote his famous novel 'Power and Glory', closely based on the life of Wren, he got a much of the information from my family. I still have a first edition of the book signed with all the real names of characters.
My Great Grandfather, after making some dough on the goldfields, owned the Yarra, Bendigo and Town Hall hotels on Johnston street, but he was a chronic gambler and lost the lot to John Wren. My Pop was himself an SP bookmaker in Collingwood, who had to leave town in a hurry on one occasion, after falling foul of Wren's henchmen.
Make no mistake, Wren was a loyal Collingwood person all his life who never forgot his working class roots and was known for his local philanthropy. However, he was also a ruthless businessmen who also used corrupt control of the local Labor Party and his influence in the Catholic church, to pursue his own political and business interests.
It is true that the establishment - largely Protestant - was disdainful of this working class upstart, who was a Catholic as well. However, let's not overly get sentimental about him. The real heroes from Collingwood at that time were not the Wrens of this world, but rather the actual working class heroes, who worked in boot factories, breweries, textile plants, on building sites, doing harsh work in terrible working conditions and living in slums. My mum's family lived in a small slum with packed dirt floors. Many of these people devoted their lives to building trade unions to fight for better working conditions and better educational opportunities for their kids.
My auntie Thelma, who died this week aged 86, worked in a textile factory from the age of 14 and at 16yrs, she became the youngest ever person elected on to the executive of a trade union. These are the the real heroes of Collingwood. John Wren was not one of them. |
Great post, very interesting. ! My late Dad was born and bred in Collingwood, and he well recalls the slums, the down and out area, the poverty and the solid, working class toughness of it. He served in the war from 1939-45, and though he built his post war life in the eastern suburbs, he always had fond memories of the old Carringbush. He saw Wren pre war, and said he was always immaculately dressed at Pies games, and would always take time to talk to the average fan about the game.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Post subject: Re: Hmmmmm | |
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| Hiss wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Wren was a complex character. I've always viewed Wren as having both good and bad traits. Five generations of my family lived in Collingwood and they had close contact with Wren. In fact, when Frank Hardy wrote his famous novel 'Power and Glory', closely based on the life of Wren, he got a much of the information from my family. I still have a first edition of the book signed with all the real names of characters.
My Great Grandfather, after making some dough on the goldfields, owned the Yarra, Bendigo and Town Hall hotels on Johnston street, but he was a chronic gambler and lost the lot to John Wren. My Pop was himself an SP bookmaker in Collingwood, who had to leave town in a hurry on one occasion, after falling foul of Wren's henchmen.
Make no mistake, Wren was a loyal Collingwood person all his life who never forgot his working class roots and was known for his local philanthropy. However, he was also a ruthless businessmen who also used corrupt control of the local Labor Party and his influence in the Catholic church, to pursue his own political and business interests.
It is true that the establishment - largely Protestant - was disdainful of this working class upstart, who was a Catholic as well. However, let's not overly get sentimental about him. The real heroes from Collingwood at that time were not the Wrens of this world, but rather the actual working class heroes, who worked in boot factories, breweries, textile plants, on building sites, doing harsh work in terrible working conditions and living in slums. My mum's family lived in a small slum with packed dirt floors. Many of these people devoted their lives to building trade unions to fight for better working conditions and better educational opportunities for their kids.
My auntie Thelma, who died this week aged 86, worked in a textile factory from the age of 14 and at 16yrs, she became the youngest ever person elected on to the executive of a trade union. These are the the real heroes of Collingwood. John Wren was not one of them. |
The vast majority of trade unions today are disgusting parasites who use their members money for personal over paid salaries and donations to the rotten corrupt ALP. Mostly these are the right wing unions who are toothless gutless wonders. They just exist for ambitious low life factional power brokers to garnish collective support and funding to get into parliament. The modern Australian trade union is nothing like those great unions in our history that really did care about their worker members and all officials came from the shop floor so they understood the plight of the poor worker and their families. Show me a poor career trade union official today and I will show you a gambler or alcoholic. They are paid extremely well and exist to ensure the interests of the rotten modern ALP gets elected to waste our money on useless unproductive contracts on equally useless major projects and smash small business with crippling regulation. They represent the lazy and unproductive overpaid public sector workers as well. John Wren would be turning in his crave if he could see the state of the modern ALP today. |
Yeah, Hiss is pretty well on the money here. The Liberal party today is nothing like it was under Menzies, Abbott has taken it too far Right, and the ALP is now Right of center, nothing like the party of Curtin, Chifley and even Whitlam. Both Hawke and Keating changed all that. Today, no party represents the working class, not even the middle class battlers either.Unions, whilst still very necessary, are no longer what they were once either. Times change i guess, not always for the better. At least in Wrens era people had principles and scruples, and the media was not controlled by ogres like Murdoch, and back then a mans word was his bond. Not like today, too much dog eat dog now, though there are still good people around, thankfully.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Post subject: Re: Hmmmmm | |
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| Hiss wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Wren was a complex character. I've always viewed Wren as having both good and bad traits. Five generations of my family lived in Collingwood and they had close contact with Wren. In fact, when Frank Hardy wrote his famous novel 'Power and Glory', closely based on the life of Wren, he got a much of the information from my family. I still have a first edition of the book signed with all the real names of characters.
My Great Grandfather, after making some dough on the goldfields, owned the Yarra, Bendigo and Town Hall hotels on Johnston street, but he was a chronic gambler and lost the lot to John Wren. My Pop was himself an SP bookmaker in Collingwood, who had to leave town in a hurry on one occasion, after falling foul of Wren's henchmen.
Make no mistake, Wren was a loyal Collingwood person all his life who never forgot his working class roots and was known for his local philanthropy. However, he was also a ruthless businessmen who also used corrupt control of the local Labor Party and his influence in the Catholic church, to pursue his own political and business interests.
It is true that the establishment - largely Protestant - was disdainful of this working class upstart, who was a Catholic as well. However, let's not overly get sentimental about him. The real heroes from Collingwood at that time were not the Wrens of this world, but rather the actual working class heroes, who worked in boot factories, breweries, textile plants, on building sites, doing harsh work in terrible working conditions and living in slums. My mum's family lived in a small slum with packed dirt floors. Many of these people devoted their lives to building trade unions to fight for better working conditions and better educational opportunities for their kids.
My auntie Thelma, who died this week aged 86, worked in a textile factory from the age of 14 and at 16yrs, she became the youngest ever person elected on to the executive of a trade union. These are the the real heroes of Collingwood. John Wren was not one of them. |
The vast majority of trade unions today are disgusting parasites who use their members money for personal over paid salaries and donations to the rotten corrupt ALP. Mostly these are the right wing unions who are toothless gutless wonders. They just exist for ambitious low life factional power brokers to garnish collective support and funding to get into parliament. The modern Australian trade union is nothing like those great unions in our history that really did care about their worker members and all officials came from the shop floor so they understood the plight of the poor worker and their families. Show me a poor career trade union official today and I will show you a gambler or alcoholic. They are paid extremely well and exist to ensure the interests of the rotten modern ALP gets elected to waste our money on useless unproductive contracts on equally useless major projects and smash small business with crippling regulation. They represent the lazy and unproductive overpaid public sector workers as well. John Wren would be turning in his crave if he could see the state of the modern ALP today. |
Yeah, Hiss is pretty well on the money here. The Liberal party today is nothing like it was under Menzies, Abbott has taken it too far Right, and the ALP is now Right of center, nothing like the party of Curtin, Chifley and even Whitlam. Both Hawke and Keating changed all that. Today, no party represents the working class, not even the middle class battlers either.Unions, whilst still very necessary, are no longer what they were once either. Times change i guess, not always for the better. At least in Wrens era people had principles and scruples, and the media was not controlled by ogres like Murdoch, and back then a mans word was his bond. Not like today, too much dog eat dog now, though there are still good people around, thankfully.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Oops. Too much data. |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| jack_spain wrote: | | Did Wren vote Labor? |
Wren not only voted Labor he owned a brace of Labor politicians and councillors. The "Wren machine" controlled Collingwood Council for several decades and in alliance wth the Loughnan machine they also controlled Richmond Council. Later Wren diversified and acquired some Country Party politicians as well.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Tell me more. |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Wren was a complex character. I've always viewed Wren as having both good and bad traits. Five generations of my family lived in Collingwood and they had close contact with Wren. In fact, when Frank Hardy wrote his famous novel 'Power and Glory', closely based on the life of Wren, he got a much of the information from my family. I still have a first edition of the book signed with all the real names of characters.
My Great Grandfather, after making some dough on the goldfields, owned the Yarra, Bendigo and Town Hall hotels on Johnston street, but he was a chronic gambler and lost the lot to John Wren. My Pop was himself an SP bookmaker in Collingwood, who had to leave town in a hurry on one occasion, after falling foul of Wren's henchmen.
Make no mistake, Wren was a loyal Collingwood person all his life who never forgot his working class roots and was known for his local philanthropy. However, he was also a ruthless businessmen who also used corrupt control of the local Labor Party and his influence in the Catholic church, to pursue his own political and business interests.
It is true that the establishment - largely Protestant - was disdainful of this working class upstart, who was a Catholic as well. However, let's not overly get sentimental about him. The real heroes from Collingwood at that time were not the Wrens of this world, but rather the actual working class heroes, who worked in boot factories, breweries, textile plants, on building sites, doing harsh work in terrible working conditions and living in slums. My mum's family lived in a small slum with packed dirt floors. Many of these people devoted their lives to building trade unions to fight for better working conditions and better educational opportunities for their kids.
My auntie Thelma, who died this week aged 86, worked in a textile factory from the age of 14 and at 16yrs, she became the youngest ever person elected on to the executive of a trade union. These are the the real heroes of Collingwood. John Wren was not one of them. |
Excellent post Rude Boy.
I have no doubt that John Wren was genuine about his philanthropy around Collingwood but when people try to justify his dark side because of his philanthropy I am always reminded of a quote from the Irish writer Brendan Behan.
The Guinness family (brewers of Ireland's most popular beverage) were noted philanthropists in later generations. Someone said to Behan:
"Sure, the Guinnesses have done a lot for Dublin"
Behan replied, "And Dublin has done rather a lot for the Guinnesses!"
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Hmmmmm | |
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| Hiss wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Wren was a complex character. I've always viewed Wren as having both good and bad traits. Five generations of my family lived in Collingwood and they had close contact with Wren. In fact, when Frank Hardy wrote his famous novel 'Power and Glory', closely based on the life of Wren, he got a much of the information from my family. I still have a first edition of the book signed with all the real names of characters.
My Great Grandfather, after making some dough on the goldfields, owned the Yarra, Bendigo and Town Hall hotels on Johnston street, but he was a chronic gambler and lost the lot to John Wren. My Pop was himself an SP bookmaker in Collingwood, who had to leave town in a hurry on one occasion, after falling foul of Wren's henchmen.
Make no mistake, Wren was a loyal Collingwood person all his life who never forgot his working class roots and was known for his local philanthropy. However, he was also a ruthless businessmen who also used corrupt control of the local Labor Party and his influence in the Catholic church, to pursue his own political and business interests.
It is true that the establishment - largely Protestant - was disdainful of this working class upstart, who was a Catholic as well. However, let's not overly get sentimental about him. The real heroes from Collingwood at that time were not the Wrens of this world, but rather the actual working class heroes, who worked in boot factories, breweries, textile plants, on building sites, doing harsh work in terrible working conditions and living in slums. My mum's family lived in a small slum with packed dirt floors. Many of these people devoted their lives to building trade unions to fight for better working conditions and better educational opportunities for their kids.
My auntie Thelma, who died this week aged 86, worked in a textile factory from the age of 14 and at 16yrs, she became the youngest ever person elected on to the executive of a trade union. These are the the real heroes of Collingwood. John Wren was not one of them. |
The vast majority of trade unions today are disgusting parasites who use their members money for personal over paid salaries and donations to the rotten corrupt ALP. Mostly these are the right wing unions who are toothless gutless wonders. They just exist for ambitious low life factional power brokers to garnish collective support and funding to get into parliament. The modern Australian trade union is nothing like those great unions in our history that really did care about their worker members and all officials came from the shop floor so they understood the plight of the poor worker and their families. Show me a poor career trade union official today and I will show you a gambler or alcoholic. They are paid extremely well and exist to ensure the interests of the rotten modern ALP gets elected to waste our money on useless unproductive contracts on equally useless major projects and smash small business with crippling regulation. They represent the lazy and unproductive overpaid public sector workers as well. John Wren would be turning in his crave if he could see the state of the modern ALP today. |
Well, yes it was better when trade unions leaders came from the shop floor rather than from Universities wth Law degrees, and certainly the unions are not as powerful or as militant as they were in the days when their officials were members of the Communist Party or the far Left of the ALP. But there were crooked and opportunist trade union leaders in the twentieth century, too. Some, like Loughnan of the Builders Labourers were closely associated with John Wren, who probably would be quite comfortable with todays trade union leaders and the ALP's capitulation to organised gambling.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Hmmmmm | |
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double post
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Born and raised in Black and White
Last edited by Dr Pie on Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Hmmmmm | |
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triple post
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