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burnsy17 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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I said this in another thread... hudson MUST play for the sake of us not killing Grundy....
We still need a mature hardened ruckman to help out
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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There is no way Grundy will be 'managed' like Fraser was.
Buckley was there for that whole deal. He's not an unintelligent man.
The season is three rounds old. Let's give the coach a little more credit before we start labelling Grundy Fraser Mk II.
Unless of course you are disinclined towards giving the coach of the Collingwood football club any credit, regardless of who that person might be.
In which case, carry on
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they can smell what we're cookin' |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: |
This 'Brown' role obsession has gotta go, it's cost us plenty often enough when we've tried to force it, without having to the goods to do so... |
I disagree. Playing two rucks almost always sucks and we have a very good option for the Leigh Brown role in White.
What we don't have is a first ruck who can play out most of a game like Jolly could, because he's simply too young. This means we'll need to compromise and at times go with Grundy and Witts together or Grundy and Hudson. Neither is ideal, but there's no way we can put the full load onto a 19 year olds shoulders.
Ideally we should have recruited for another ruck in the off-season. We didn't and now need to make do with what we have.
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Well done boys! |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| magpieazza wrote: | Can someone tell me if Witts is going to be a good hard running ruckman, because I have the feeling he isn't and it is what we need. Days of the lumbering ruckmen are over and from what I saw last night our players are not running out games. I saw Elliot huffing and puffing in the last quarter but yet he was in the forward line. What of Swan?...is he still the burst player he has always been and not up to handling the increased need of running out games, especially being a midfielder. So if someone asks me if Witts is an answer I say no because it looks to me we need more run run run run run run.....not less.
The most frustrating thing is that it was obvious in the preseason that Grundy could not do it alone and yet should have been addressed in the summer. White is a good trade imo but mainly as that third tall, in fact another White would have been nice. On a positive note I thought Keeffe did well, but geez we are light on for tall rucking runners ala Blicsavs.
Why have we been faced with this same lack of depth in the ruck dept. problem year in year out, we actually have ridden our luck and got away with it, but happens if Grundy goes down? |
There's a bloke running around for Hawthorn who would be perfect for the role, name escapes me but starts with a C?
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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may as well try to play Lynch - We might as well try to get value for money out of that selection/coaching triumph.
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| rocketronnie wrote: | | may as well try to play Lynch - We might as well try to get value for money out of that selection/coaching triumph. |
Oh God No.
He does nothing at VFL Level
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| rocketronnie wrote: | | may as well try to play Lynch - We might as well try to get value for money out of that selection/coaching triumph. |
Agree. Might as well use his body for something useful. Grundy need to scale down the time he spends on the ground to 60-65%.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| melliot wrote: |
The problem is that we're too slow with Witts & Grundy in the side. Especially when one plays deep forward. The ball bounces out like a trampoline.
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I disagree with this, for mine it says far more about the rest of the team than about Witts. yes he's not exactly Ussain Bolt but he's faster than Sandilands and can move quite quickly once he gets a head of steam up.
Leg speed is a poor alternative to good ball use.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Brown26
Joined: 14 Sep 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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I reckon we should play Witts next week (with Reid out) up forward. When Reid comes back, then White will assume the second ruck duties (with Witts out) and Grundy may have to be rested every now and again. Probably should play every game before the bye (if Witts plays this week) or rest him this week and play Witts. We want him against Essendon.
- Ben |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: |
This 'Brown' role obsession has gotta go, it's cost us plenty often enough when we've tried to force it, without having to the goods to do so... |
I disagree. Playing two rucks almost always sucks and we have a very good option for the Leigh Brown role in White.
What we don't have is a first ruck who can play out most of a game like Jolly could, because he's simply too young. This means we'll need to compromise and at times go with Grundy and Witts together or Grundy and Hudson. Neither is ideal, but there's no way we can put the full load onto a 19 year olds shoulders.
Ideally we should have recruited for another ruck in the off-season. We didn't and now need to make do with what we have. |
Why?
You've already said you think that playing two rucks suck most of the time so why draft another ruckman.
If Grundy needs a rest then it's pretty simple we play Witts and give him an opportunity as our No.1 ruck option or fall back on Hudson.
I'd rather be getting games into Witts rather than some never has been like Cameron Wood.
P.S-Problems will only arise if all 3 ruckman are injured but in reality that would be the case for most clubs.
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: |
This 'Brown' role obsession has gotta go, it's cost us plenty often enough when we've tried to force it, without having to the goods to do so... |
I disagree. Playing two rucks almost always sucks and we have a very good option for the Leigh Brown role in White.
What we don't have is a first ruck who can play out most of a game like Jolly could, because he's simply too young. This means we'll need to compromise and at times go with Grundy and Witts together or Grundy and Hudson. Neither is ideal, but there's no way we can put the full load onto a 19 year olds shoulders.
Ideally we should have recruited for another ruck in the off-season. We didn't and now need to make do with what we have. |
Agreed (to some degree) - then I believe we have to play Witts and drop a small. We can try with White, like you say, but I'm not getting those vibes that its going to really work out, and you're right Grundy is too young (god bless him).
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| swoop42 wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: |
This 'Brown' role obsession has gotta go, it's cost us plenty often enough when we've tried to force it, without having to the goods to do so... |
I disagree. Playing two rucks almost always sucks and we have a very good option for the Leigh Brown role in White.
What we don't have is a first ruck who can play out most of a game like Jolly could, because he's simply too young. This means we'll need to compromise and at times go with Grundy and Witts together or Grundy and Hudson. Neither is ideal, but there's no way we can put the full load onto a 19 year olds shoulders.
Ideally we should have recruited for another ruck in the off-season. We didn't and now need to make do with what we have. |
Why?
You've already said you think that playing two rucks suck most of the time so why draft another ruckman.
If Grundy needs a rest then it's pretty simple we play Witts and give him an opportunity as our No.1 ruck option or fall back on Hudson.
I'd rather be getting games into Witts rather than some never has been like Cameron Wood.
P.S-Problems will only arise if all 3 ruckman are injured but in reality that would be the case for most clubs. |
Mainly because I don't think Hudson's going to be up to even an insurance role this year. Just too old. This means we really only have two legitimate first rucks; one who is only 19.
We can make do with what we have, but it isn't ideal. We'll probably even play Hudson at times. I guess that's ok for a building year. If we were looking at challenging, even for top 4, we'd need better.
Next year we'll probably need to bring in another though. Hudson will be gone and possibly Lynch.
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Well done boys! |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Tannin wrote: | I reckon we should play horses for courses, Dave. Yep, where we are playing a side with two strong rucks, Grundy should have a mate to help him out - and Witts is the boy. But where the opposition play a single ruck plus someone in the Leigh Brown role, I'm OK with having White and Grundy (or White and Witts if/when Grundy is rested).
The tricky question is this: when we play both genuine ruckmen, can we afford to have White in the side as well before we get too top-heavy? If so, what about Reid when he returns? I suppose we drop Frost at that point and play Reid as a defender. |
This. Saturday nights game was a perfect opportunity to give Witts a run, particularly as we've got Reid and Brown missing through injury. It definitely becomes more difficult to manage when those 2 return as we could become overloaded with talls. Could manage with all of them in given the mobility of White and Frost but you want to be looking closely at the opposition before you make that call. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| melliot wrote: | I think it's game/opposition specific.
The problem is that we're too slow with Witts & Grundy in the side. Especially when one plays deep forward. The ball bounces out like a trampoline.
Agree that Grundy needs help. He was spent in the 3rd. Maybe we need to play Lynch. Then we can have Lynch, White & Keefe providing a cumulative greater chop out of say 30%-40%. |
This arguement just mystifies me. How can Witts and Grundy be any slower than Simpson and McIntosh? |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| magpieazza wrote: | Can someone tell me if Witts is going to be a good hard running ruckman, because I have the feeling he isn't and it is what we need. Days of the lumbering ruckmen are over and from what I saw last night our players are not running out games. I saw Elliot huffing and puffing in the last quarter but yet he was in the forward line. What of Swan?...is he still the burst player he has always been and not up to handling the increased need of running out games, especially being a midfielder. So if someone asks me if Witts is an answer I say no because it looks to me we need more run run run run run run.....not less.
The most frustrating thing is that it was obvious in the preseason that Grundy could not do it alone and yet should have been addressed in the summer. White is a good trade imo but mainly as that third tall, in fact another White would have been nice. On a positive note I thought Keeffe did well, but geez we are light on for tall rucking runners ala Blicsavs.
Why have we been faced with this same lack of depth in the ruck dept. problem year in year out, we actually have ridden our luck and got away with it, but happens if Grundy goes down? |
I think Witts will develop into a very good ruckman given senior exposure. People say we're slow with him in the side but it's not our talls that make us slower than other teams it's our small and medium players like Pendles, Ball, Beams, Fasolo, and Dwyer who do that. All smart footballers who generally maximise their contribution to the team through other assets but that still doesn't make them quick.
Watch a replay and I think you'll find Elliott works bloody hard back into defence. All the preseason training in the world won't replace match fitness so all players will improve as the season progresses.
As for Bliclavs, freak athlete. every club is short on for those. Keeffe and Frost could develop into this type of player given time. |
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