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AnthonyC 
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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| thompsoc wrote: | | AnthonyC wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | The last great draft pick by Hine was Beams at about pick 29 in 2008.
Since then he has not drafted one recognised A grader.
Obviously, some of the later picks like Moore may become one.
This fly's in the face of the many numerous Nicksters who think the man is a genius.
Another issue with the above table is that it doesn't include rookies and traded players.
The guy is a reasonable recruiter but so far can' t be given the title of genius. |
I don't think that should be the criteria for judging a recruiter's ability. With a number of high draft picks I'm sure I could get an A-grader.
The ability to find a hidden gem, diamond in the rough, etc, etc, from the list available at the time your pick comes around is far more critical I would think. |
Getting an A grader in Beams was good from pick 29
So what hidden Gems has Hine unearthed in the last 8 years?
Not many!!!!
His last great year was 2006.
It was this draft coupled with the recruiting of Sidey, Beams, Thomas and Pendles but 3 out of these were top 10 draft picks, plus the one third of flag players recruited by Judkins that gave us the cup in 2010.
He has not unearthed one so called A grader in the last 10 years from any pick below a round 1.
It is a myth that he is great in this area.
I have banged on about this for the last 4 or so years and nothing has changed in every new draft. |
I didn't say that Hine had recruited an A-grader.
You may have missed my point.
Have a look at : http://www.afl.com.au/draft/draft-history
Go back to 2009, and then forward from there, and have a look at players after our picks (that were not rookie elevations), and how many A-graders do you see that came after our picks in the draft? In your words, not many.
As Cam said, our high draft picks from 2013 have been possibly for nought, which is just bad luck, or then again it could be Buckley's fault, everything else is.
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Go Pies! |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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The list manager is Hine not Buckley.
Hine is top dog with recruitment including recruiting players like Treloar.
Not many A graders come through full stop.
But if you want to win a flag you need probably 8 to 10 of these players.
All other non A graders are just the fillers.
It is why the first 30 or so draft picks are critical and any unearthed gems after that are really important.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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It seems like, in the years that we actually had good picks, we've done reasonably well. 2012 and 2014 are both big ticks so far (Kennedy aside), and while 2013 seems like a bit of a bust we at least partially made up for it by selecting Langdon so late. Fasolo at #46 in 2010 was another steal.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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AnthonyC
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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| thompsoc wrote: | ...
But if you want to win a flag you need probably 8 to 10 of these players.
All other non A graders are just the fillers.
It is why the first 30 or so draft picks are critical and any unearthed gems after that are really important. |
So we should do what carlton and melbourne (and throw in the saints) do and tank for a few years, get a heap of high draft picks, and then get a flag. Didn't really work out for them did it.
The point is that recruiting is a bloody hard job and getting it right, given what is left for the picking by the time your pick comes along in the draft, is what can make a real difference.
Any criticism on Hine should be based on who he missed AFTER our pick(s), yes?
It's picking your team in the schoolyard, with significantly greater consequences, the better players go first. But I didn't need to say that, or maybe I did.
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Go Pies! |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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looking at the graphic in the op, it appears that we have done reasonably well. very few taken by other clubs have been locks for their teams.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| 2012 the Dees also got Hogan in the mini-draft and Viney at 25-26 ish. GCS also got Martin in the same mini draft. GCS also got O'Meara from the 2011 mini draft. |
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gurugeoff
Joined: 09 Oct 2013
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| David wrote: | | It seems like, in the years that we actually had good picks, we've done reasonably well. 2012 and 2014 are both big ticks so far (Kennedy aside), and while 2013 seems like a bit of a bust we at least partially made up for it by selecting Langdon so late. Fasolo at #46 in 2010 was another steal. |
u reckon? 2012 not looking so good at the moment for mine - Ramsay, I like, but been injured for most of his time here, Kennedy looking good (but not for us), Broomhead, another one always injured, and to be honest, hasn't done a lot. Grundy, starting off pretty good, but hasn't really improved - and I think everyone acknowledges our weakness in the ruck. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| gurugeoff wrote: | | David wrote: | | It seems like, in the years that we actually had good picks, we've done reasonably well. 2012 and 2014 are both big ticks so far (Kennedy aside), and while 2013 seems like a bit of a bust we at least partially made up for it by selecting Langdon so late. Fasolo at #46 in 2010 was another steal. |
u reckon? 2012 not looking so good at the moment for mine - Ramsay, I like, but been injured for most of his time here, Kennedy looking good (but not for us), Broomhead, another one always injured, and to be honest, hasn't done a lot. Grundy, starting off pretty good, but hasn't really improved - and I think everyone acknowledges our weakness in the ruck. |
Mr Hine is the list manager.
He picked Kennedy for a round 1 pick and he chopped him for a round 2 pick.
It makes zero difference whether Kennedy becomes a champion at the Dees.
It was Mr Hine who got rid of him. If Kennedy does well then he should have kept him.
If Kennendy does bad then it proves he can't pick them.
Either way he is a dead man walking on this one.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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You will find that Hine isn't happy about Gubby coming in. Someone is going to make Hine accountable for a change.
For the resources that Hine has had, he has been a mediocre recruiter. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Jez07 wrote: | You will find that Hine isn't happy about Gubby coming in. Someone is going to make Hine accountable for a change.
For the resources that Hine has had, he has been a mediocre recruiter. |
But Jez07 old boy haven't you heard the news!!!!
Hine is a genius!
Strange that Jono Brown said we have only 2 A graders.
Poor old Jono needs glasses i reckon.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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#inhinewetrust  |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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When did we draft Seedsman?
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| duke750 wrote: | | Apart from Moore, I don't recall us recruiting any classy, credentialed key forwards or key backs. |
That's because the most we've paid for a defender in the draft under Buckley has been pick 30, the rest of our defenders drafted under Buckley have been very late ND picks or rookies, every first round pick except one (Moore) has been spent on mids, and people wonder why our defence is shit.
Last year we gave up 2015 and 2016 round 1 picks on another mid, and gave up a couple of second rounders for yet another mid, we had one second rounder left to spend on last years draft and what do we do? You guessed it, another mid, but this time a project mid, insipid drafting considering the writing has been on the wall for ages that Cloke was struggling, and we've known for a while that White wasnt going to make it as a forward.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this.
Last edited by Bob Sugar on Thu May 12, 2016 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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Forgetting his Collingwood link, but the Treloar trade is really going to bite us. There is an old saying in recruiting, you draft for dough and you trade for show.
The 2010 team was built by building the KPP blocks. Reid was taken at 8 in 06', Brown 10' & Dawes at 28' in the 06 draft. Cloke was a F/S pick in 04' and would have been a nominal Top 10 pick in that draft if the F/S rules were as they are now. The 4 KPP's in the flag were effectively built on top 30 selections.
If we held our nerve, we would have retained Pick 7 last year and could have had Weideman develop with Moore. We would have also had access to a Top 5 pick this year.
When the time came to add traded in players to finish off the build if the team developed, we would have no issues having holes in our build. It is scary how many holes this team will have in the next 2 years when the likes of Cloke, Brown, Reid and co are 30 plus. |
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courtza
Joined: 26 May 2013
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| Bob Sugar wrote: | | duke750 wrote: | | Apart from Moore, I don't recall us recruiting any classy, credentialed key forwards or key backs. |
That's because the most we've paid for a defender in the draft under Buckley has been pick 30, the rest of our defenders drafted under Buckley have been very late ND picks or rookies, every first round pick except one (Moore) has been spent on mids, and people wonder why our defence is shit.
Last year we gave up 2015 and 2016 round 1 picks on another mid, and gave up a couple of second rounders for yet another mid, we had one second rounder left to spend on last years draft and what do we do? You guessed it, another mid, but this time a project mid, insipid drafting considering the writing has been on the wall for ages that Cloke was struggling, and we've known for a while that White wasnt going to make it as a forward. |
Yep, take out Reid, always injured and Cloke, disappointing, we really have no quality kpp's on our list, apart from Moore.
I have serious doubts on Gault ever filling a role and Cox well its a good story but....
Hopefully Grundy and Witts learn how to mark at some stage. |
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