 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
E
Joined: 05 May 2010
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
I'd trade up if i can in 2018 and trade out the 2019 first round pick, which we'll likely lose anyway to points stuff. What about our two first rounders in 2018 and 2019 (plus a player) for the bulldogs, Adelaide, Ess, PA or North pick.
Would be a coup to get three of the top 20 players in a strong draft.
Add Lynch to that and it would be an embarrassment of riches.
We also get three great draft picks coming back in 2019. Treloar, Elliot and Scharenberg!
_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
|
|
|
 |
Invigoration
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| WhyPhilWhy? wrote: | | Faz and our first pick for something below 10? |
Fas is a RFA, forget about including him in trades, it won't happen that way if he wants to leave.
_________________
Brown re his GF omission:
"It’s not about me & it never has been. It’s about the team & it’s about Collingwood & it’s about the 22 other blokes out there on the park. That’s all that matters to me" |
|
|
|
|
qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Our embarrassment of riches in the midfield is the only chance we would have to offer our 1st round pick + a player to trade into a top 5-10 draft position. We could as E pointed out get a real talent early and then use 2019 pick on Quaynor and Kelly
Both these guys are backs even though I've been reading Quaynor has been running in the midfield recently which is interesting given his speed. I wonder with the all of backs we already have on our list are we trying to create another Stephenson type out of Quaynor ?
All our best mids are safely locked away for the immediate future so it would have to be a player coming to us asking for a trade for a better opportunity elsewhere or better pay day elsewhere for that to happen
The club said recently they expect Elliott to re-sign as well
So my understanding our only uncontracted players left would be Oxley Smith Blair Fasalo Langdon and the big fish Darcy Moore
It's doubtful we would let Moore go but then again if a offer of a top 5 draft pick was offered up it might make us think I guess.
Outside of Moore we have nothing of value left to trade out and get us anywhere near a first round upgrade we would need
Trade times are months away we have finals to get through first so things could change quickly once the season en for us like it has done previously |
|
|
|
|
MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Invigoration wrote: | | WhyPhilWhy? wrote: | | Faz and our first pick for something below 10? |
Fas is a RFA, forget about including him in trades, it won't happen that way if he wants to leave. |
Fas is an unrestricted FA so even less leverage. Would only be if his destination team wanted to protect their own FA compensation.
_________________
All We Can Be |
|
|
|
|
Crazypie
Joined: 21 May 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| E wrote: | | What about our two first rounders in 2018 and 2019 (plus a player) for the bulldogs, Adelaide, Ess, PA or North pick. |
We MUST use one of these picks in these picks in the draft. They have changed the rules so a club must not trade their FIRST round pick every year. 2 of first round picks of a five year period must be used in the draft of which we have only used 1 on Stephenson. Which means using either this year's or 2019s. Collingwood and the cats are the only clubs not to of used 2 Geelong having traded theirs for the last 3 years (on danger and Ablett) mean they have to use their first rounders both this year and next.
If we were to trade our first rounder this year and next for a better first rounder it would mean we would need to use it probably causing using it on either quaynor or Kelly which would be a waste unless we still had enough points for them but I doubt we would.
I'll try and find the article on AFL.com.au about compulsory using 2 first rounders in 5 years and post it.
_________________
Go Pies! |
|
|
|
|
MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Crazypie wrote: | | E wrote: | | What about our two first rounders in 2018 and 2019 (plus a player) for the bulldogs, Adelaide, Ess, PA or North pick. |
We MUST use one of these picks in these picks in the draft. They have changed the rules so a club must not trade their FIRST round pick every year. 2 of first round picks of a five year period must be used in the draft of which we have only used 1 on Stephenson. Which means using either this year's or 2019s. Collingwood and the cats are the only clubs not to of used 2 Geelong having traded theirs for the last 3 years (on danger and Ablett) mean they have to use their first rounders both this year and next.
If we were to trade our first rounder this year and next for a better first rounder it would mean we would need to use it probably causing using it on either quaynor or Kelly which would be a waste unless we still had enough points for them but I doubt we would.
I'll try and find the article on AFL.com.au about compulsory using 2 first rounders in 5 years and post it. |
Not correct. Please read the OP:
Trading of Draft Pick Rules
The starting point is that you can trade current year and next year picks.
The first restriction is that if you trade your future first then you cannot trade your future other picks and vice versa.
The second restriction applies from 2019 and was widely misreported early on leading to confusion. It is best described as a pre-condition to trading your future first rounder. From 2019 you can ONLY trade a future first round pick IF you have used two first round picks in the previous four years. Using a first round pick means making an actual pick or using the points from the pick towards a NGA or FS player. This second restriction only applies to trading your future first rounder and has no impact on your ability to trade your current year first rounder (which is subject only to the first restriction above).
Clubs are required to make a minimum of three selections (including rookie upgrades) in the national draft.
What Draft Picks Can we Trade?
We can trade all our 2018 draft picks*. We must, however, make at least 3 selections (including rookie upgrades) in the national draft. Trading away draft picks will just push us down the draft order, we don't run out.
*If we trade our 2018 first rounder then come 2019 and the second restriction noted above we will not meet the pre-condition which allows us to trade away our future (2020) first rounder unless we trade in a first round pick:
2015: traded (Treloar)
2016: traded (Treloar)
2017: Stephenson
2018: ???
This year we can also trade either:
(a) our future (2019) first rounder; or
(b) our future (2019) other round picks.
_________________
All We Can Be
Last edited by MightyMagpie on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Thanks for asking politely. Sorry I don't have access to that document. |
|
|
|
|
Crazypie
Joined: 21 May 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The AFL this week confirmed to AFL.com.au that unless a club has acquired two first-round picks between 2015-2018, it cannot trade away its first-round selection for 2019.
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-18/cats-back-themselves-into-a-trading-corner
The way I read it we have only used 1 and we MUST use one in 18 or 19 and Geelong must use both 2018+2019.
_________________
Go Pies! |
|
|
|
|
MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The article you refer to above (and note that paras 3 and 5 are inconsistent) rehashes what was being reported 12 [EDIT 24] months ago. Geelong got confirmation back then that there is no restriction until 2019 (Wells even said he was surprised) and the restriction is on trading future picks from 2019 (ie 2020 pick in 2019). There is discussion of all this in last year’s blog as I started at this point, but was pointed to the AFL having confirmed otherwise. So unless the AFL has backflipped I suspect Mitch has this wrong or the wording is meant to be “cannot trade away its FUTURE first rounder from 2019”.
I’ll try to dig out the articles from last year.
EDIT:
It is an unsatisfactory situation that these rules aren't fully public. I have messaged Mitch Cleary with the HS article below to see what (if anything) he says. The fact that the HS got the written determination by Dillon gives that article more credence from my point of view (I'd still rather see it myself!).
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/every-afl-club-can-trade-its-future-firstround-pick-with-stricter-rules-to-take-effect-in-2019/news-story/62ac5fa26bb74712ec0a6e84e2e92888
"The Herald Sun has clarified future-pick trading rules and the league has for the first time released its formal guideline document.
It had been widely believed that every club must use two first-round draft picks in every rolling four-year cycle.
But the rule addresses trading a future first-round selection only when a club has used fewer than two first-round picks in the past four drafts.
Even then, clubs can apply to the AFL for an exemption.
And according to the October 2015 document, Determination for the trading of future draft selections, the first four-year block will not come into effect until the 2019 exchange period.
The delayed introduction of future trading rules was so as not to prejudice clubs’ existing long-term list strategies.
Exemptions will be determined based on the age of players brought in through trades and what draft picks the club has used.
The future-pick document also demands that club boards authorise the trading of a future first-round selection before the trade period.
Geelong does not have a first-round pick this year, after trading it last year for Carlton’s Zach Tuohy, and last used one in 2014, drafting Nakia Cockatoo at No.10.
But the Cats are allowed to go another two years without using one.
They would also have a strong case for further leeway, after recruiting Patrick Dangerfield and using an early second-round pick last year.
It was reported last October that the Cats had to acquire an additional first-round selection this year or next year to comply with AFL rules.
The Herald Sun this month made repeated attempts to confirm this with the AFL and, after discussions, believed that was the case.
But the Cats then contacted integrity officer Ken Wood, who confirmed the relaxed rules.
After requests from the Herald Sun last week, the AFL handed over the rules, which were signed off by legal counsel Andrew Dillon.
The document has never previously been made public.
Under what had been the prevailing understanding, the Cats would have had to trade in an extra first-round pick this year or next, after they traded their 2017 first-round pick for Tuohy last year.
Cats list manager Stephen Wells admitted last October he did not believe Geelong could offload a third consecutive first-round pick to land Tuohy.
“I must admit there was a perception we couldn’t do it here myself,” he said.
“But we did check with the AFL.”
The rules reveal the league is not opposed to clubs trading a string of early selections, as long as they act responsibly.
Hawthorn’s golden era was built on shrewd deals.
From 2009 to 2014, the Hawks used just one first-round pick — taking Isaac Smith in 2010 — as they traded for proven players.
Clubs are always free to trade draft picks in the current year."
_________________
All We Can Be |
|
|
|
|
Crazypie
Joined: 21 May 2018
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The way I read the 5th paragraph is that if Geelong can manage a second first round pick ie. Trade Tim Kelly for west coast or freos first round pick then use both their first rounder and the traded in first rounder (from freo or WC) in 2018 then they would be able to trade their 2019 first rounder. Otherwise Thier stuck using both this year's first round pick and 2019 first round pick.
I could be wrong about it but the article clearly states Collingwood will have to use a first round pick in 2018 OR 2019 not trade them both for players (Lynch).
_________________
Go Pies! |
|
|
|
|
MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Crazypie wrote: | The way I read the 5th paragraph is that if Geelong can manage a second first round pick ie. Trade Tim Kelly for west coast or freos first round pick then use both their first rounder and the traded in first rounder (from freo or WC) in 2018 then they would be able to trade their 2019 first rounder. Otherwise Thier stuck using both this year's first round pick and 2019 first round pick.
I could be wrong about it but the article clearly states Collingwood will have to use a first round pick in 2018 OR 2019 not trade them both for players (Lynch). |
I don’t disagree with your interpretation of the Cleary article, but I think that article is wrong when I line it up against the HS article I quoted.
I have exchanged messages with Mitch. He is relying on an unnamed AFL person telling him something. He hasn’t responded to my question as to whether he has actually seen the written determination by Andrew Dillon which is the official documentation of the rule.
I have no issue with you raising this Crazypie, my frustration (noted in my OP) is that the relevant AFL rules (in this case it a written determination by Andrew Dillon made under AFL rule 9.3) are not public.
_________________
All We Can Be |
|
|
|
|
Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^^^
The lack of transparency over the 1st round pick is annoying but if we relate it back to Collingwood, I don’t see a scenario where we would really want to trade out both our 2018 and 2019 first rounders anyway.
We would either want to trade away our 2019 first pick + allocated 2018 first pick to greatly improve our 2018 first round draft position OR trade away our 2019 first rounder for an established player / points and not involve our allocated 2018 first rounder.
Either way, the club is then left with a ( high end ) 2018 first rounder to invest in the draft as they see fit.
If we do trade out our 2018 first round pick for whatever, then it just means the club did it in the knowledge they will be locked in with a 2019 first rounder to be used on a kid. |
|
|
|
|
E
Joined: 05 May 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Crazypie wrote: | | E wrote: | | What about our two first rounders in 2018 and 2019 (plus a player) for the bulldogs, Adelaide, Ess, PA or North pick. |
We MUST use one of these picks in these picks in the draft. They have changed the rules so a club must not trade their FIRST round pick every year. 2 of first round picks of a five year period must be used in the draft of which we have only used 1 on Stephenson. Which means using either this year's or 2019s. Collingwood and the cats are the only clubs not to of used 2 Geelong having traded theirs for the last 3 years (on danger and Ablett) mean they have to use their first rounders both this year and next.
If we were to trade our first rounder this year and next for a better first rounder it would mean we would need to use it probably causing using it on either quaynor or Kelly which would be a waste unless we still had enough points for them but I doubt we would.
I'll try and find the article on AFL.com.au about compulsory using 2 first rounders in 5 years and post it. |
I think you might not be following the strategy. Let me explain. If we trade our two lower picks for one higher pick this year, we will still use have and use a first round pick. Unless that doesnt count (and i cant believe that is the case), we will still have used a first round pick.
Then in terms of strategy, the hope is that the draft pick we have in 2018 could be used on a player BEFORE either Quaynor or Kelly get picked (meaning we get, Kelly, Quaynor and a high end talent in a great draft). Obviously, we wont have enough points to pay for Quaynor and Kelly in 2018 but who cares (we can pay for it in 2019 and 2020 if need be). We are in load up mode right now for flag tilts in 2019, 2020 and 2021.
_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
|
|
|
|
E
Joined: 05 May 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Crazypie wrote: | The way I read the 5th paragraph is that if Geelong can manage a second first round pick ie. Trade Tim Kelly for west coast or freos first round pick then use both their first rounder and the traded in first rounder (from freo or WC) in 2018 then they would be able to trade their 2019 first rounder. Otherwise Thier stuck using both this year's first round pick and 2019 first round pick.
I could be wrong about it but the article clearly states Collingwood will have to use a first round pick in 2018 OR 2019 not trade them both for players (Lynch). |
But isn't that your answer? If Geelong are able to use a traded first round pick and it counts, why couldn't we? I wasn't suggested we trade out of the draft. Actually quite the opposite.
_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
|
|
|
|
MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Big boost for Williamstown FC star Michael Gibbons, with Paul Roos holding him up as a mature-age player who could help struggling AFL clubs. His numbers are excellent. They have been for a few years. https://t.co/xGoAf4a1qV
_________________
All We Can Be |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
