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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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The lasting misery of coronavirus long-haulers
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02598-6
14 Sep. 2020
"Because most infected people do not end up in hospital, Gholamrezanezhad says the overall rate of such intermediate-term lung damage is likely to be much lower — his best guess is that it is less than 10%. Nevertheless, given that 28.2 million people are known to have been infected so far, and that the lungs are just one of the places that clinicians have detected damage, even that low percentage implies that hundreds of thousands of people are experiencing lasting health consequences.
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A study published in February recorded long-term lung harm from SARS, which is caused by SARS-CoV-1. Between 2003 and 2018, Peixun Zhang at Peking University People’s Hospital in Beijing and his colleagues tracked the health of 71 people who had been hospitalized with SARS. Even after 15 years, 4.6% still had visible lesions on their lungs, and 38% had reduced diffusion capacity, meaning that their lungs were poor at transferring oxygen into the blood and removing carbon dioxide from it.
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Once again, there is evidence from SARS that coronavirus infection can cause long-term fatigue. In 2011, Harvey Moldofsky and John Patcai at the University of Toronto in Canada described 22 people with SARS, all of whom remained unable to work 13–36 months after infection. Compared with matched controls, they had persistent fatigue, muscle pain, depression and disrupted sleep. Another study, published in 2009, tracked people with SARS for 4 years and found that 40% had chronic fatigue."
Last edited by K on Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Jezza wrote: | | Are you seriously comparing Ebola to COVID? |
Spot on. It is a ridiculous comparison. The biggest outbreak of Ebola killed 11,000 people - a tiny drop in a great big bucket compared to Covid, which has killed 988,000 so far, and is a very, very long way from being over.
By this time next month, Covid will have gone well part the million mark and be more than 100 times worse than Ebola. So you are right. There is no comparison.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| Tannin wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | Are you seriously comparing Ebola to COVID? |
Spot on. It is a ridiculous comparison. The biggest outbreak of Ebola killed 11,000 people - a tiny drop in a great big bucket compared to Covid, which has killed 988,000 so far, and is a very, very long way from being over.
By this time next month, Covid will have gone well part the million mark and be more than 100 times worse than Ebola. So you are right. There is no comparison. |
And a long way off the Spanish flu thankfully. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Well, the world got lucky with Ebola. It is not air-borne, and it kills people before they can become super-spreaders.
Sadly, the world did not see it for what it was: dumb luck, for which humans could take no credit. Not even the richest philanthropist on the planet, Bill Gates, could get the world to see what was coming. A fail for humanity. |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| Jezza wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ As it should be. Since he took control of the process and sidelined the (former) Health Minister, things have been dramatically on the improve. |
Are we throwing Mikakos under the bus to protect the Chairman?  |
Pakula should be next, someone finally found the contract was signed by his secretary so I guess we know who authorised Unified security even if no one remembers doing it! |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Tannin wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | Are you seriously comparing Ebola to COVID? |
Spot on. It is a ridiculous comparison. The biggest outbreak of Ebola killed 11,000 people - a tiny drop in a great big bucket compared to Covid, which has killed 988,000 so far, and is a very, very long way from being over.
By this time next month, Covid will have gone well part the million mark and be more than 100 times worse than Ebola. So you are right. There is no comparison. |
28,646 cases of Ebola = 11,323 deaths (39.53% CFR)
32,770,787 cases of Covid = 993,555 deaths (3.03% CFR)
Using your logic, the common flu is worse than Ebola.
_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Because he suffers from the same logical disorder that afflicts climate deniers when you speak with them about the precautionary principle, that's why. |
Get Fkd, smart arse, that's not it at all. If you want to see someone with a logic deficiency, I suggest a mirror? |
You said this:
| stui magpie wrote: | | The fact that supermarkets have been open and crowded all the way through lockdown with not a single infection recorded is all the evidence you need to re open retail outlets. |
I pointed out that:
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | There have been reports of people dying from contracting the virus from supermarkets. No, I’m not going to trawl through 25,000 ABC articles to find them - but statements to the contrary are undoubtedly mistaken. |
A thoughtful response might have been to say "Sorry, I missed that. I overstated my position". Instead you doubled down with rubbish about sharks and Flinders St Station.
In any event, your original point was that there had been "not a single infection recorded" from a supermarket not that there hadn't been deaths. That was, and remains, demonstrable nonsense.
You don't have to like being caught out asserting things that are so obviously factually incorrect - but nor do you have to shoot the messenger. By all means, minimise and pretend it's not a serious health threat (whilst, of course, at the same time using the "non-threatening" health threat as a basis for vitriolic abuse of those trying to close it down) but you can't reasonably get cranky with people for noticing it. |
Yep, making bullshit statements and then resorting to insults but it's my fault.
Everything i said was reasonable, you're just myopic and incapable of engaging in civilised discourse unless it serves to prove your belief to be the smartest one in the room.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Jezza wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ As it should be. Since he took control of the process and sidelined the (former) Health Minister, things have been dramatically on the improve. |
Are we throwing Mikakos under the bus to protect the Chairman? |
So we are clear, I do not vote for the ALP and have not done so for about 35 years. A fair observer would see that I have not taken gratuitous pot shots at any of our political leaders, irrespective of their political persuasion.
I am also on the record here saying that they can all go to hell in a bucket as far as I am concerned but that the questions of blame do not matter at the moment. I just want the present outbreak controlled. It nearly is - and I think (and no, it won't affect my vote) that the Premier and the CHO, in particular, are to be credited for just about doing so.
My view, having followed the evidence with a reasonably well-trained and critical eye, is straight-forward - this seems to have been left with Health and, it would appear, in the hands of, in a small number of cases, officials that were not apt to the task. A number of senior officials made serious errors, sidelined the CHO and, it would appear (from some of their own evidence), also failed to tell the Health Minister some reasonably important things. My expectation is that they will be dealt with in the final report. Perhaps the Premier will, too. I don't care. It is not my problem.
Does anyone seriously think the former Health Minister should have remained in charge of that portfolio because she had done such a good job? |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Because he suffers from the same logical disorder that afflicts climate deniers when you speak with them about the precautionary principle, that's why. |
Get Fkd, smart arse, that's not it at all. If you want to see someone with a logic deficiency, I suggest a mirror? |
You said this:
| stui magpie wrote: | | The fact that supermarkets have been open and crowded all the way through lockdown with not a single infection recorded is all the evidence you need to re open retail outlets. |
I pointed out that:
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | There have been reports of people dying from contracting the virus from supermarkets. No, I’m not going to trawl through 25,000 ABC articles to find them - but statements to the contrary are undoubtedly mistaken. |
A thoughtful response might have been to say "Sorry, I missed that. I overstated my position". Instead you doubled down with rubbish about sharks and Flinders St Station.
In any event, your original point was that there had been "not a single infection recorded" from a supermarket not that there hadn't been deaths. That was, and remains, demonstrable nonsense.
You don't have to like being caught out asserting things that are so obviously factually incorrect - but nor do you have to shoot the messenger. By all means, minimise and pretend it's not a serious health threat (whilst, of course, at the same time using the "non-threatening" health threat as a basis for vitriolic abuse of those trying to close it down) but you can't reasonably get cranky with people for noticing it. |
Yep, making bullshit statements and then resorting to insults but it's my fault.
Everything i said was reasonable, you're just myopic and incapable of engaging in civilised discourse unless it serves to prove your belief to be the smartest one in the room. |
Which thing I said was a "bullshit statement"?
Further, if something is demonstrably incorrect, how can it be "reasonable" to say it? |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | just want the present outbreak controlled. It nearly is - and I think (and no, it won't affect my vote) that the Premier and the CHO, in particular, are to be credited for just about doing so. |
We all want the outbreak controlled. We just have different opinions on how to achieve it.
Though I find it difficult to praise the very same people who's incompetence led us to this outbreak in the first place. It's like thanking an arsonist for putting out the fire they caused.
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | My view, having followed the evidence with a reasonably well-trained and critical eye, is straight-forward - this seems to have been left with Health and, it would appear, in the hands of, in a small number of cases, officials that were not apt to the task. A number of senior officials made serious errors, sidelined the CHO and, it would appear (from some of their own evidence), also failed to tell the Health Minister some reasonably important things. My expectation is that they will be dealt with in the final report. Perhaps the Premier will, too. I don't care. It is not my problem. |
They're fair observations.
However, everything remains amorphous as to who was in charge of what. I hope the upcoming report provides some much needed answers.
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Does anyone seriously think the former Health Minister should have remained in charge of that portfolio because she had done such a good job? |
No.
I also think Andrews, Pakula and Sutton should have resigned as well.
_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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^
And add Neville and Crisp to the list, it was a police and emergency management failure as well |
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Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia
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glad Mikakos resigned
I remember when things got heated she went on some weird late night twitter rant about her Greek ancestors.
embarrassing. not leadership material. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Perhaps the Cabinet should just all commit seppuku? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Jezza wrote: |
We all want the outbreak controlled. We just have different opinions on how to achieve it.
Though I find it difficult to praise the very same people who's incompetence led us to this outbreak in the first place. It's like thanking an arsonist for putting out the fire they caused. |
Very apt analogy, but remember, arsonists don't cause fires climate change does
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Jezza wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | just want the present outbreak controlled. It nearly is - and I think (and no, it won't affect my vote) that the Premier and the CHO, in particular, are to be credited for just about doing so. |
We all want the outbreak controlled. We just have different opinions on how to achieve it.
Though I find it difficult to praise the very same people who's incompetence led us to this outbreak in the first place. It's like thanking an arsonist for putting out the fire they caused. |
That's fair position, also. My view, FWIW, is that the CHO wasn't actually implicated (and, rather seems to have been sidelined from the early, critical decision-making) and that the Premier's early error may have lain in trusting (some) others to do their job, rather than taking control of the whole response himself. I don't attach too much blame to that mistake, in the scheme of things - there is a view abroad (see some of the ABC articles about Mikakos), in any event, that he doesn't delegate enough. He's supposed to run the State and there were (and are) all sorts of other things to do in that role than manage a quarantine program. |
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