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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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For all the simpletons, if you work or wish to work in the Australian defence sector, you have to declare your full history of your birth, including relatives and where they were born with proof. This even occurs in the "baseline" classification, which is the lowest level. The higher the security classification the deeper the Government check your history. How Politicians are not made to follow the same procedure is amazing.
It's not the hard. Section 44 is clear and what we have had occur is people failing to check their birth history. They are not applying for just an everyday job, it's a job in Government. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Mountains Magpie wrote: | How about "If you're born in Australia you can serve in local/state/federal parliament. If you're not you can't".
Or is this too simple?
MM |
Such a policy would literally make immigrants second-class citizens. I don’t see why that could be considered desirable.
At the end of the day, the biggest problem here is Section 44. It’s a constitutional provision that no other Commonwealth country or (that I’m aware of) major Western state has – all of them allow dual nationals to serve in parliament. Even if Section 44 was a good idea in theory (and I’d argue it isn’t), what it’s clearly done is exposed our parliament – including those politicians like Xenophon and Frydenberg whose families fled situations outside their control and never would have dreamed that the countries that persecuted their parents had retroactively claimed them as citizens – to the whims of other countries’ often complicate and opaque citizenship laws. In a system with very clear conflicts of interest, from personal business interests to questionable trade deals to foreign political donations to powerful lobby groups, it’s a sick joke that this has been (and will be) the downfall of so many politicians. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Mountains Magpie
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Location: Somewhere between now and then
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Mugwump wrote: | Mountains Magpie wrote: | How about "If you're born in Australia you can serve in local/state/federal parliament. If you're not you can't".
Or is this too simple?
MM |
How about “if you are elected in an Australian election and you’re an Australian citizen ?” Why should birthplace make any difference in the modern age ? |
If we are indeed in the 'modern age' then let's have a world government ASAP and get it over with.
David wrote: | Mountains Magpie wrote: | How about "If you're born in Australia you can serve in local/state/federal parliament. If you're not you can't".
Or is this too simple?
MM |
Such a policy would literally make immigrants second-class citizens. I don’t see why that could be considered desirable. |
Baloney. that's like saying because they couldn't stand for office there is nothing else for them to do to contribute to society. _________________ Spiral progress, unstoppable,
exhausted sources replaced by perversion |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Sure they could contribute, and enjoy various privileges and responsibilities. But they’d still be second-class citizens, unable to ever have a meaningful say in how their adopted country is run – whether they moved here at the age of 20, 13 or 6 months. Why would that be a good idea? _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Mountains Magpie
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Location: Somewhere between now and then
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You have a meaningful say at the ballot box _________________ Spiral progress, unstoppable,
exhausted sources replaced by perversion |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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But not the right to participate in politics in any other sense and act as a representative of your fellow citizens. Most of all, though, I just can’t see why anybody would think this would be useful or necessary. I don’t know where you stand on Julia Gillard (I could take her or leave her as a politician), but the idea that someone like her should have been disqualified from politics while Pauline Hanson shouldn’t be just seems bizarre and pointless. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Is anyone keeping up with this? So far, we’ve had all of these found ineligible:
Scott Ludlam
Larissa Waters
Malcolm Roberts
Barnaby Joyce
Fiona Nash
Now, Liberal Party Senate leader Stephen Parry has been forced to resign because of likely dual citizenship. He’ll be off to the High Court, along with some combination of:
John Alexander (Libs)
Alex Hawke (Libs)
Josh Frydenberg (Libs)
Julia Banks (Libs)
Justine Keay (ALP)
Susan Lamb (ALP)
Jacqui Lambie
Plus, undoubtedly, others who haven’t yet come forward. And Pauline Hanson is apparently looking into her situation too. What a mess, hey? _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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Interested to see if Alex Hawke holds Greek citizenship.
If he does, then I'm very likely to be unknowingly a dual citizen as well. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Jezza wrote: | Interested to see if Alex Hawke holds Greek citizenship.
If he does, then I'm very likely to be unknowingly a dual citizen as well. |
I’m starting to suspect half the country is! _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Thanks for the link, by the way, Jezza. As much as I disapprove of all this, I am delighted by the idea of David Feeney being forced to step down – not only is he a particularly sleazy Labor operative, but a by-election in his seat would likely be won by the Greens (they only fell short by 1% in 2016). _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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I love how if ALP MP's or Senators are found to be dual citizens then this is somehow a victory for Turnbull. Turnbull comes out in his proposal with "personal obligation" and I have no doubt there will be a plethora of loop holes to avoid punishment. I would suggest that after all the rhetoric and the High Court rulings, if a current sitting MP or Senator has any doubts or is unsure about their citizenship and they haven't done any checking or come forward. If they are now found to be a dual citizen, then not only should they be removed from office and charged; they then should be ruled out for contesting any bi election and be made to paid to back any monies, plus interest. This goes for all MP's and Senators no matter who they represent. Section 44 is clear and the highest court in the land has ruled it is as well. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Would you apply such a punitive standard to Josh Frydenberg, the child of stateless refugees, who may have been retroactively granted Hungarian citizenship in 2011, after he had already been elected to parliament for the first time? These are the kind of murky cases we’re dealing with here, after all.
I have some sympathy for the desire to punish MPs who have deliberately concealed their status, and perhaps there are indeed a few of them. But I think there’s a great many who simply aren’t or weren’t aware of their citizenship status (after all, if you were an aspiring politician who knew you were a dual citizen and knew the law, why wouldn’t you renounce it? Malcolm Roberts is the only one so far who seems to have acted deviously, and even he simply seems to have discovered his status too late and then attempted to cover it up). And I still think it’s a far less heinous act than refusing to report donations or deductions, a widespread issue which has more or less been shrugged off. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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It says something about the quality of our democratic system that we can’t find a couple of hundred people in an entire country who meet the basic prerequisites for election. Lucky we didn’t include anything too onerous in the Constitution, such as the ability to read or write (or think). |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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The media are now doing the work of the Parliament and we have 8 MP's in the lower house and 3 Senators citizenships is in question. It's 4 LNP and 4 ALP in the lower house. All 11 should front the High Court. |
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