Does Praying Really Do Anything?

[HAL]

No I am HAL.

[David]

I see there's a connection between praying and wine, or do I have to go to page 2?

[Dr Alf Andrews]

[rand corp]

Asssassin.

There are those, thankfully in the minority, that abuse things, that cannot manage certain things responsibly -be they substabces that one intakes, motor vehicles, finances, anything.

Nearly all things good for you are bad if over used and abused. And that is unfortunate, the minority who do abuse substances and other responsibilities in life do need assistance; education before there is a problem is an important part of that.

To suggest that, that (education) isn't a very large part of the entire alcoholic beverages market in Australia is indeed ignorant.

That a small minority of people are unable to manage alcohol intake responsibly inspite of existing advertising and education programs is an ongoing problem that needs to be -and is constantly being- addressed. Banning alcohol is obviously not the answer (ask the yanks), teaching poeple to use it responsibly and assisting the minority who have a problem using it responsibly (to the point of persecution in extreme instances), has long been understood to be the most utilitarian method.

Often the consequences of abuse does sometimes involve and hurt others and this can be quite tragic, very sad and to some unforgivable. There is certainly no excuse for the behaviour of some who abuse aclohol and do not use it responsibly but, to blame the aclohol is to give them the moral victory and ignore what is at the heart of the problem, the individual or the culture of substance abuse.

Most would agree that this forum is good for ones soul, keeping it free and fair is obviously part of the attraction. That tools like you abuse it certainly doesn't suggest for one minute that the site should be closed down, to the detrimant of all who enjoy it and use ot responsibly.

'The fact that your attacks on me have absolutely nothing to do with this thread is pertinent, that you have attacked me personally without debating any particular point of reference in this thread, instead that you went to my details page, found out what I do for a living and chose to attack me personally (without knowing me at all) is quite strange really.'

NUFF SAID

[HAL]

I think I need a deeper algorithm. Are there good sites near Collingwood?

[Dr Alf Andrews]

... er ...

... group hug ...

I think

[rand corp]

No worries,

I'm no mesa candidate either Assassin, just an average Joe like most.

I like the Vic Tavern; as a forum for public debate of the important issues and cultural aspects of our daily lives. I like to think that for some, it can inform (us).

I try to be polite and considerate and only fire up when I see flaming or outrageous posts that I feel are rehtorical and ill-informed. I guess I'm a little sensitive to miss-information.

I won't drag up TITP's post, I'll simply say that, at the time it irked me to think that some readers could actually assume that the outrageous claim in his post was true and I felt it needed a tsunami of correct information to put things right.

[rand corp]

The Pies & me.

My grandparents went to the footy basically every week for nigh on 70 years and were mighty pissed when we wouldn't take them anymore. My grandmother started going to watch her beloved Collingwood some time just after the Great War and was later joined by my grandfather.

Trust me, by the time my brother and I stopped taking them it was well beyond there ability, my grandmother for example could no longer see the game all bar a huge blur and still she wanted to go, my grandfather would lie around the house lifeless and bemoaning any one of 1001 ailments but, the source of great of mirth in my family was the way he would spring to life and be practically dancing around the room whenever the Pies were on the box or the radio.

They instilled in me all of the great Collingwood stories and legend going back to our majestic sides of the 20's and 30's and further. They began taking me to the football when I was four years old (1968) and I went with them basically every week until I was about 16, (from then on, until I left Melbourne, I was going with mates but, my little brother, who is five years younger than me had already stepped into the breach by then).

It was the days of suburban footy at its finest, a home ground one week and an away ground the next. Then Waverly came along and boy was my grandfather pissed about that, absolutely hated the place and wouldn't go there for years.

My grandmother had amazing powers of determination when it came to the pies though and found a girlfriend and fellow Collingwood supporter to take her and I out to Waverly games until my grandfather finally relented. (He never, ever drove there though and would eventually come along with my Nan's friend.)

So much of my formative years, my time with my grandparents and my memories of a working class family, growing up in another time, in a working class suburb, are wrapped around their love of the Collingwood football club. The club's history was our history and is my history. Therefore, you see, my love of the Collingwood Football Club is to me, very profound, because I can't think of my love of my family or of my childhood and in particular the very special love a grandchild has for and receives from his grandparents, without thinking of Club.

So of course I love the Collingwood Football Club, I am the Collingwood Football Club and it is me.

[eddies bank balance]

Cocaine, herion, e's, choof, cigarettes, alcohol are all ready available for you to indulge in,,, but its entirely your CHOICE, dont blame the seller, blame the manufacturer.

[eddies bank balance]

All above advertising should be banned,but you cant sell a product if it dosent exsist.