Well done Toovey
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| Tannin wrote: | Now we are on the same page.
So ... where are the shut-down defenders who can damn well kick? Where are the attacking defenders who can damn well shut a player down? Why haven't we brought any on of late?
Harry was looking good to be a genuine all-round defender, but he is playing crap this year - way, way too many mistakes, and I don't like all that weight he is carrying.
Heater goes into brain-fade mode far too often.
Nick Maxwell has never learned hoiw to shut a man down.
Sigh. It goes on. We haven't had a genuine all-round defender who can blanket a player and hurt them going the other way since the great Jimmy Clement retired. Presti is as close as we come today - he's a great shut-down FB and better than we realise on those rare occassions when he goes for a run up to the wing.
I blame the coaching staff. Too much emphasis on attack, they need to remember that a defender's FIRST duty is to defend.
PS: maybe the return of Goldie can answer my prayers. If he ever gets fit again. |
How can you blame the coaching staff - they did not cause Clements premature retirement.
You can't plan for such totally unexpected changes, and had he not retired, this discussion would not be necessary as he was younger than Presti, and would still be playing.
Current predicament was totally unforeseen.
Before you suggest we should have recruited to replace Clement, lets remember getting a key defender is impossible eg. Carltons failure to lure Lake last year, despite a huge offer.
Why do you need to apportion blame where is doesn't exist
Last edited by ThePieMind on Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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i cant get over the improvement of tooves this year! i thought he cost us dearly last year - yeah he had a couple of clangers - but so did several others who still had a great cotribution that counted (out of the full daisy & heater!!)
but these three all gave their all for the whole game, (they did not just STOP in the last 1/4 like some seemed to)so a couple of clangers in such young talent is surely understandable. Jolly had a couple and has a lot more experience.
i for one am really happy with tooves this year!
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Newton's law.
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".
Yep pretty much sums up Tooves, you get the very good with the very bad.
He is an enigma.
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gregpie
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Location: tullamarine
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| Quote: | | I really admire Toovey. He reads the play well, puts his body on the line and trys his guts out. He's not the greatest disposer of the ball but he plays within his limitations and gets the job done. |
I give him 120% for effort and determination. Unfortunately if I rate him on pure skills, disposal and talent he is'nt in our best 22. I'm puzzled why N Brown does'nt get a gig ahead of Toovey to be honest. Bigger body just for starters. Presti is also nearing the end, so giving Brown regular game time should be a priority. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| gregpie wrote: | | Quote: | | I really admire Toovey. He reads the play well, puts his body on the line and trys his guts out. He's not the greatest disposer of the ball but he plays within his limitations and gets the job done. |
I give him 120% for effort and determination. Unfortunately if I rate him on pure skills, disposal and talent he is'nt in our best 22. I'm puzzled why N Brown does'nt get a gig ahead of Toovey to be honest. Bigger body just for starters. Presti is also nearing the end, so giving Brown regular game time should be a priority. |
Toovey has far more pace than Brown and reads the ball better imo. |
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nulla
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Location: In My Reg Grundys
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| OEP wrote: | | Pied Piper wrote: | While everyone here acknowledges Toovey's limitations, it's instructive that almost no one questions his place in the side anymore. He's come a long way from being Nick's whipping boy a year or two ago.
The thing is, Toovey also knows his limitations, and plays as much as he can within those limitations. Nick Maxwell did much the same for years, building his confidence to the point where eventually he was able to add an attacking dimension to his game.
I think Alan Toovey is officially the most underrated player on our list. He's played just over 50 games. I will stick my neck out and predict he'll play another 100. |
More than happy to stick my neck out with you on that one. |
Agree Pied Piper.
the kid is all heart.... looks like he is this weeks flavour on the dropping list along with Fraser.... lets face it someone must go to make way for Dawes.
We tend to forget Tooveys really great games and how far he has come.
An asset to the side and in my best 22 for sure
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DaVe86 
Man of Steele
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | DaVe86 wrote: | | Dave...is Blight able to totally shut a player out of a game??? Not everyone can be about attack. |
Not Yet and That something he would work on but He won't turn it over as much as Toovey does and against Zoning Sides Blight would really be an Asset with taking the game on and long kicking to break the Zone |
There you go, argument over. You want Blight in over Toovey...but by your own admission he isn't a shut down player. So the 2 are not competing for the same spot. Blight is probably competing with Ben Johnson more than Toovey.
Goldsack is potentially the only one on the list I can see displacing Toovey...but then again Goldsack is not a small defender...he is mid-sized to tall. Toovey can play on the Eddie Betts or Alwyn Davey types...the Shaun Higgins types or play a bit taller on a lead up forward.
Goldsack is probably more suited to purely mid-sized or lead up forwards. He is the same height as Prestigiacomo so is more in the mould of a full back...but perhaps offers more attack
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There's more to life than footy.........just not much more. |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | gregpie wrote: | | Quote: | | I really admire Toovey. He reads the play well, puts his body on the line and trys his guts out. He's not the greatest disposer of the ball but he plays within his limitations and gets the job done. |
I give him 120% for effort and determination. Unfortunately if I rate him on pure skills, disposal and talent he is'nt in our best 22. I'm puzzled why N Brown does'nt get a gig ahead of Toovey to be honest. Bigger body just for starters. Presti is also nearing the end, so giving Brown regular game time should be a priority. |
Toovey has far more pace than Brown and reads the ball better imo. |
irrespective of that they're not competing for the same role in the team.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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DaVe86
Man of Steele
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne
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| gregpie wrote: | | Quote: | | I really admire Toovey. He reads the play well, puts his body on the line and trys his guts out. He's not the greatest disposer of the ball but he plays within his limitations and gets the job done. |
I give him 120% for effort and determination. Unfortunately if I rate him on pure skills, disposal and talent he is'nt in our best 22. I'm puzzled why N Brown does'nt get a gig ahead of Toovey to be honest. Bigger body just for starters. Presti is also nearing the end, so giving Brown regular game time should be a priority. |
Can you see Nathan Brown playing on Stokes??? or Lindsay Thomas??? Or Schneider???
No...Nathan Brown is a tall defender...Toovey is a small defender. Completely different roles and they are not in competition with each other at all.
In terms of talent and skill, he is probably ranked 22nd in the top 22. In terms of shut down ability...he is ranked 2nd. So he is very secure in his spot.
If Nathan Brown loses 20 kilos, and shrinks 5-10centimetres...then he may displace Toovey.
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There's more to life than footy.........just not much more. |
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Black_White
Joined: 19 Mar 2001
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How many games Toovey?
Website say 52, so in my opinion he has just become an AFL player.
Never judge a player under 50 games, so his next 10-20 games will give me all the info I need.
*edit* Can I also state here that I like the boy? |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| ThePieMind wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | Now we are on the same page.
So ... where are the shut-down defenders who can damn well kick? Where are the attacking defenders who can damn well shut a player down? Why haven't we brought any on of late?
Harry was looking good to be a genuine all-round defender, but he is playing crap this year - way, way too many mistakes, and I don't like all that weight he is carrying.
Heater goes into brain-fade mode far too often.
Nick Maxwell has never learned hoiw to shut a man down.
Sigh. It goes on. We haven't had a genuine all-round defender who can blanket a player and hurt them going the other way since the great Jimmy Clement retired. Presti is as close as we come today - he's a great shut-down FB and better than we realise on those rare occassions when he goes for a run up to the wing.
I blame the coaching staff. Too much emphasis on attack, they need to remember that a defender's FIRST duty is to defend.
PS: maybe the return of Goldie can answer my prayers. If he ever gets fit again. |
How can you blame the coaching staff - they did not cause Clements premature retirement.
You can't plan for such totally unexpected changes, and had he not retired, this discussion would not be necessary as he was younger than Presti, and would still be playing.
Current predicament was totally unforeseen.
Before you suggest we should have recruited to replace Clement, lets remember getting a key defender is impossible eg. Carltons failure to lure Lake last year, despite a huge offer.
Why do you need to apportion blame where is doesn't exist |
^ Total garbage post.
Why do you need to misinterpret and distort what other members are saying?
Or an honest misunderstanding, maybe, but I'll honour the normal Nick's BBS tradition here and assume bad faith and/or stupidity until the reverse is proven. Given the simplicity of my point and some not-at-all difficult language used to make it, you'd have to be pretty damn thick to get it this badly wrong.
Who the hell said anything about blaming the coaching staff for Jimmy retiring? Certainly not me. As should be obvious to anyone who actually bothered to read my post, I am blaming the coaching staff for their failure to bring on any genuine defenders other than Toovey. Sure, it's good to have attacking, risk-taking defenders in the side, but our current defensive setup has got two - count them, two - genuine defenders in the classic mould. Every other defender in the side is a risk-taker with serious questions about his ability to simply shut a player down.
It is great to have defenders who can attack, but why are we not training our defenders to defend? That is the first and most important part of their job, after all.
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| member34259 wrote: | How many games Toovey?
Website say 52, so in my opinion he has just become an AFL player.
Never judge a player under 50 games, so his next 10-20 games will give me all the info I need.
*edit* Can I also state here that I like the boy? |
given that the average afl career is only four years long, he is going ok.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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nulla
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Location: In My Reg Grundys
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| jmcp wrote: | | member34259 wrote: | How many games Toovey?
Website say 52, so in my opinion he has just become an AFL player.
Never judge a player under 50 games, so his next 10-20 games will give me all the info I need.
*edit* Can I also state here that I like the boy? |
given that the average afl career is only four years long, he is going ok. |
I did not know that... can it be said then that those beyond that average are above average players... maybe it depends on a few other factors as well.
Not picking here but Rus has near on lasted that long in the medical rooms
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I have a lazy eye and I think it is now spreading throughout the rest of my body |
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| Tannin wrote: | | ThePieMind wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | Now we are on the same page.
So ... where are the shut-down defenders who can damn well kick? Where are the attacking defenders who can damn well shut a player down? Why haven't we brought any on of late?
Harry was looking good to be a genuine all-round defender, but he is playing crap this year - way, way too many mistakes, and I don't like all that weight he is carrying.
Heater goes into brain-fade mode far too often.
Nick Maxwell has never learned hoiw to shut a man down.
Sigh. It goes on. We haven't had a genuine all-round defender who can blanket a player and hurt them going the other way since the great Jimmy Clement retired. Presti is as close as we come today - he's a great shut-down FB and better than we realise on those rare occassions when he goes for a run up to the wing.
I blame the coaching staff. Too much emphasis on attack, they need to remember that a defender's FIRST duty is to defend.
PS: maybe the return of Goldie can answer my prayers. If he ever gets fit again. |
How can you blame the coaching staff - they did not cause Clements premature retirement.
You can't plan for such totally unexpected changes, and had he not retired, this discussion would not be necessary as he was younger than Presti, and would still be playing.
Current predicament was totally unforeseen.
Before you suggest we should have recruited to replace Clement, lets remember getting a key defender is impossible eg. Carltons failure to lure Lake last year, despite a huge offer.
Why do you need to apportion blame where is doesn't exist |
^ Total garbage post.
Why do you need to misinterpret and distort what other members are saying?
Or an honest misunderstanding, maybe, but I'll honour the normal Nick's BBS tradition here and assume bad faith and/or stupidity until the reverse is proven. Given the simplicity of my point and some not-at-all difficult language used to make it, you'd have to be pretty damn thick to get it this badly wrong.
Who the hell said anything about blaming the coaching staff for Jimmy retiring? Certainly not me. As should be obvious to anyone who actually bothered to read my post, I am blaming the coaching staff for their failure to bring on any genuine defenders other than Toovey. Sure, it's good to have attacking, risk-taking defenders in the side, but our current defensive setup has got two - count them, two - genuine defenders in the classic mould. Every other defender in the side is a risk-taker with serious questions about his ability to simply shut a player down.
It is great to have defenders who can attack, but why are we not training our defenders to defend? That is the first and most important part of their job, after all. |
Please re-read my post I think it is quite clear, and does not accuse you of blaming the coaching staff for Clements retirement - see red text above
Let me reiterate:
You are blaming the coaching staff for our current predicament.
By doing so you are ignoring the unforeseen departure of Clements - therefore your criticism of the coaching staffs failure to develop defenders is unwarranted.
That is my contention pure and simple, and I will suppress any inclination to either judge your IQ or reading level.
Nick's after all is an equal opportunity, bulletin board - where stupidity and insight are found in equal measure.
Last edited by ThePieMind on Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Black_White
Joined: 19 Mar 2001
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Piemind, a good coaching panel will look to the future and have a secondary plan in place for the early retirement, be it for personal reasons or injury.
That is the true measure of a coach and recruiting panel. |
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