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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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4 game memberships... i bought 6 this year after not buying any since 2004
_________________
Get back on top. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Hope you got Sydney, Geelong (the first time), Hawthorn (the first time) and Adelaide - that'd nearly have been worth the money. |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | The following article in The Age has us second on financial outcome at $10.4M net revenue, behind West Coast ($16.0M) and just ahead of Fremantle ($10.2M).
It also contains a graphic that illustrates the proportions of home and away, home only, reduced game and AFL/Club memberships for each club.
Thus:
"West Coast earned a staggering $16 million in net membership revenue (what clubs made once costs were subtracted) compared to Collingwood’s $10.4 million and the game’s rising financial power, Fremantle ($10.2 million). Adelaide ($7.6 million) and Geelong ($7.1 million) were fourth and fifth, ahead of closely bunched Victorian powers Hawthorn ($6.3 million), Richmond ($6.3 million), Essendon ($6.1 million) and Carlton ($6 million).
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Collingwood’s membership earnings would be greater if the club included "walk-up" reserve seat sales – this would boost the Pies to about $13.5 million in earnings on membership/reserve seats and this does not include gate receipts, which are also a factor for most MCG tenants and clubs that play in blockbusters at the G."
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-membership-the-real-figures-for-your-club-20140506-zr5tt.html#fixtures-and-ladder-fixtures |
Thats great on figures from 4 years ago...
Club definitely flogs the 3 game memberships especially before ANZAC Day, but no different to other clubs. It would be interesting to see the current figures but a bit suspicious claiming we went up when attendances are spiralling downward. Our shit draw doesnt help nor a coach leading the team performances on a bigger drop |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Figures/data are manipulated to give the best outcome. It comes in handy when negotiating contracts for such things as Catering and TV rights. I'd like to have the raw data to run through, but they won't release that. That 6.8% figure could come from the WVFL just like they used those figures to boost Membership figures. |
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Bucks5
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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I was going to say the simple explanation was that more opposition fans are turning up to see their side win 
That would help offset any drop in attendance by Collingwood members. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | The following article in The Age has us second on financial outcome at $10.4M net revenue, behind West Coast ($16.0M) and just ahead of Fremantle ($10.2M).
It also contains a graphic that illustrates the proportions of home and away, home only, reduced game and AFL/Club memberships for each club.
Thus:
"West Coast earned a staggering $16 million in net membership revenue (what clubs made once costs were subtracted) compared to Collingwood’s $10.4 million and the game’s rising financial power, Fremantle ($10.2 million). Adelaide ($7.6 million) and Geelong ($7.1 million) were fourth and fifth, ahead of closely bunched Victorian powers Hawthorn ($6.3 million), Richmond ($6.3 million), Essendon ($6.1 million) and Carlton ($6 million).
....
Collingwood’s membership earnings would be greater if the club included "walk-up" reserve seat sales – this would boost the Pies to about $13.5 million in earnings on membership/reserve seats and this does not include gate receipts, which are also a factor for most MCG tenants and clubs that play in blockbusters at the G."
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-membership-the-real-figures-for-your-club-20140506-zr5tt.html#fixtures-and-ladder-fixtures |
Thats great on figures from 4 years ago...
Club definitely flogs the 3 game memberships especially before ANZAC Day, but no different to other clubs. It would be interesting to see the current figures but a bit suspicious claiming we went up when attendances are spiralling downward. Our shit draw doesnt help nor a coach leading the team performances on a bigger drop |
Yes, I agree the figures are for 2013 but nothing more recent seems to be available (from the AFL, that is - this isn't specifically a Collingwood issue). |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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The season by season attendances for Collingwood games are in these tables:
http://afltables.com/afl/teams/collingwood/allgames.html
The summary is that average attendances since 2006 have been:
2006 54,316
2007 57,315
2008 56,741
2009 56,943
2010 63,928
2011 60,964
2012 56,641
2013 53,754
2014 47,486
2015 47,911
2016 44,192
2017 45,244
One needs to go behind the raw numbers to some extent - the average attendances include finals, so four finals crowds of 356,000 in total in 2010 obviously boost the average that year (probably by about 4,500 per game). Also, from 2012, we have been playing GCS and GWS and their games attract almost no-one, especially away. Similarly, playing, eg, Port twice (total crowd roughly 73,000 across the two games) is less of a crowd attraction than Carlton twice (over 70,000 in the one game this year - even allowing for dwindling interest by both sets of supporters now, you'd still think the net reduction in crowd by playing Carlton only once could be about 40,000 attendances). I appreciate that we played Essendon twice last year and only once this year but, before the latest rubbish interstate clubs were introduced, we played Essendon and Carlton twice.
Even so, the fact remains that our home and away attendances have dropped by over 20% since 2011 (from 57,725 to 45,244).
Perhaps the best way to see the crowd trend over time is to look at the number of games attracting 50,000+ crowds In home and away matches, it was 13 in 2011 and, so far this year, it's been 8. It will probably reach 9 (we had over 70,000 a the first Melbourne game and 46,000 at the first Geelong game, so one of those will probably reach 50,000).
Anyway, one could analyse the supporters' responses to the draw in all sort of ways but the trivial increase between 2016 and 2017 attendances can be explained by one simple fact - last year, we played Footscray twice, for a total crowd of only about 80,000 - this year we played them just once in round 1, first game after they were given a flag, and over 66,000 turned up. |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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| Pies4shaw wrote: |
The season by season attendances for Collingwood games are in these tables:
http://afltables.com/afl/teams/collingwood/allgames.html
The summary is that average attendances since 2006 have been:
2006 54,316
2007 57,315
2008 56,741
2009 56,943
2010 63,928
2011 60,964
2012 56,641
2013 53,754
2014 47,486
2015 47,911
2016 44,192
2017 45,244
One needs to go behind the raw numbers to some extent - the average attendances include finals, so four finals crowds of 356,000 in total in 2010 obviously boost the average that year (probably by about 4,500 per game). Also, from 2012, we have been playing GCS and GWS and their games attract almost no-one, especially away. Similarly, playing, eg, Port twice (total crowd roughly 73,000 across the two games) is less of a crowd attraction than Carlton twice (over 70,000 in the one game this year - even allowing for dwindling interest by both sets of supporters now, you'd still think the net reduction in crowd by playing Carlton only once could be about 40,000 attendances). I appreciate that we played Essendon twice last year and only once this year but, before the latest rubbish interstate clubs were introduced, we played Essendon and Carlton twice.
Even so, the fact remains that our home and away attendances have dropped by over 20% since 2011 (from 57,725 to 45,244).
Perhaps the best way to see the crowd trend over time is to look at the number of games attracting 50,000+ crowds In home and away matches, it was 13 in 2011 and, so far this year, it's been 8. It will probably reach 9 (we had over 70,000 a the first Melbourne game and 46,000 at the first Geelong game, so one of those will probably reach 50,000).
Anyway, one could analyse the supporters' responses to the draw in all sort of ways but the trivial increase between 2016 and 2017 attendances can be explained by one simple fact - last year, we played Footscray twice, for a total crowd of only about 80,000 - this year we played them just once in round 1, first game after they were given a flag, and over 66,000 turned up. |
Interesting figures.
Redlight always puts a spin on our situation. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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This year is fairly similar to 2005, although we're probably doing slightly better now, given that there were no completely hopeless crowds in those days because all clubs had supporter bases.
On the other hand, looking back 20 years, we had 13 crowds over 50,000 in 1997, even though we played 3 games at Victoria Park and 1 at the Gabba. Our average attendance in 1997 was 50,135 in a 10 win, 12 loss season. In those days, of course, we had a total of 15 games at the MCG and Waverley.
Looking at the present year, a serious problem with the fixture is that we have played a lot of teams in the wrong places. So, in 2016 we played West Coast at Subi (37,000) and the 'G (35,000) and this year at Docklands (23,000). St Kilda at the 'G last year (51,000), at Docklands this year (37,000). Adelaide there last year (50,000), this year at the 'G (33,000). Those are just some examples. Also, playing Richmond and Carlton twice last year but only once this year hasn't helped. |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | This year is fairly similar to 2005, although we're probably doing slightly better now, given that there were no completely hopeless crowds in those days because all clubs had supporter bases.
On the other hand, looking back 20 years, we had 13 crowds over 50,000 in 1997, even though we played 3 games at Victoria Park and 1 at the Gabba. Our average attendance in 1997 was 50,135 in a 10 win, 12 loss season. In those days, of course, we had a total of 15 games at the MCG and Waverley.
Looking at the present year, a serious problem with the fixture is that we have played a lot of teams in the wrong places. So, in 2016 we played West Coast at Subi (37,000) and the 'G (35,000) and this year at Docklands (23,000). St Kilda at the 'G last year (51,000), at Docklands this year (37,000). Adelaide there last year (50,000), this year at the 'G (33,000). Those are just some examples. Also, playing Richmond and Carlton twice last year but only once this year hasn't helped. |
Melbourne has added about 1,500,000 people since 1997. So as a percentage of population attending the football is declining, not just for us but for the whole AFL. |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| masoncox wrote: | Interesting figures.
Redlight always puts a spin on our situation. |
Don’t shoot the messenger, I’m simply reporting the numbers as published by Michael Warner
Collingwood
Total attendance 2017 696,944 (2nd of all clubs)
Ave Home game 2016 46,168
Ave Home game 2017 49,353
Increase +6.8
All figures like these have qualifiers that may support or undermine any conclusions drawn from the raw numbers, however I think it's safe to say that supporters aren't abandoning the Pies and attendances are not 'spiralling downward' as per the post I was replying to. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| masoncox wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | This year is fairly similar to 2005, although we're probably doing slightly better now, given that there were no completely hopeless crowds in those days because all clubs had supporter bases.
On the other hand, looking back 20 years, we had 13 crowds over 50,000 in 1997, even though we played 3 games at Victoria Park and 1 at the Gabba. Our average attendance in 1997 was 50,135 in a 10 win, 12 loss season. In those days, of course, we had a total of 15 games at the MCG and Waverley.
Looking at the present year, a serious problem with the fixture is that we have played a lot of teams in the wrong places. So, in 2016 we played West Coast at Subi (37,000) and the 'G (35,000) and this year at Docklands (23,000). St Kilda at the 'G last year (51,000), at Docklands this year (37,000). Adelaide there last year (50,000), this year at the 'G (33,000). Those are just some examples. Also, playing Richmond and Carlton twice last year but only once this year hasn't helped. |
Melbourne has added about 1,500,000 people since 1997. So as a percentage of population attending the football is declining, not just for us but for the whole AFL. |
Yes. I presume that is, in part, because of the increased availability of live footy on TV, as well as a general diminution of the quality of the product and the increased number of games we don't care about because they're played against manufactured teams (Brisbane, GCS and GWS) or against teams that completely depend upon our money to pay the players that beat us. Clubs are now forced to make their attendances from the same number of games but against less attractive opposition. Things would, I think, be different if Collingwood played twice against Richmond, Carlton and Essendon every season.
Also, I consider that "equalisation" has a dreadful impact on teams like ours. The thing that keeps me vaguely interested in watching European soccer is the chance to see teams that can field top class players in every position on the field, with no regard to any salary cap. There's never any excuse for a Manager at Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal, AC Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc because there is no limit on who they can attract. By contrast, Collingwood only has 15 AFL-standard players on its list fit at any one time, so every week we watch a team containing a whole bunch of guys that shouldn't really be in the seniors. Most sides that have won flags in the modern era field guys who really shouldn't be playing in the champion team.
Compare our present position trying to cobble together some key-position starters with, say, 1977. Slot modern-day players the equivalent of Worthington, Picken, Dunne, Kink, Moore (Snr) and Carman into our team and it wins every match. Moreover, I want to watch that team play. |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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| Pies4shaw wrote: |
By contrast, Collingwood only has 15 AFL-standard players on its list fit at any one time, so every week we watch a team containing a whole bunch of guys that shouldn't really be in the seniors. Most sides that have won flags in the modern era field guys who really shouldn't be playing in the champion team.
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This is why I use to like watching Vic vs WA or Vic vs SA. The quality of the players fielded were so much better than any club teams. |
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