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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| I think it’s a great idea for Carlton. They can sit and gaze at their trophy cabinet of 22 premierships and dream of their past glories, while the current team wins another wooden trophy and then they can contemplate what might have been when the 2019 number one draft pick they should have got, goes to Adelaide and that player plays 200 games for Adelaide and wins a Brownlow medal. |
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Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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| Mr Miyagi wrote: | It means more $$$ next year because the AFL could celebrate 150 years.
Ka-ching ka-ching ka-ching. $$$ is all they friggin think about.
And ditto re Geelong. Gee, I wonder what their motive is? |
Bingo! That’s the sealer on why this will probably get up and it also gives them an excuse to Rush it though, because all of a sudden they’ll have to ‘plan for the 150th anniversary celebrations’. The people running this organisation make me sick.
Personally couldn’t give a rats arse about this. Eddie feels Strongly about it and I hope his motives are pure.
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'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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1870 is a year of some significance, but it's also pretty arbitrary. Here's Wikipedia on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1870_Victorian_football_season
| Quote: | By convention, the 1870 season is considered the first season of senior football competition in Victoria's history, or at least the first for which a premiership can be officially allocated. The reasons for this are somewhat arbitrary, since the competing clubs, organizational structure of football, and standard of play in 1870 were not materially different from 1869.
The view of 1870 as being the inaugural premiership has existed since at least 1889, when The Argus newspaper first published a table of historical premiers and second and third place-getters dating back to 1870 and no earlier. In the article which adjoined the publication of the 1889 table, the reporter commented that the haphazard nature of scheduling, frequency of cancelled matches, and overall lesser standard of play made it difficult to assign a premiership to the seasons played in the 1860s.
The VFL's official publication, the Football Record, also showed this same list from its inception in 1912 until 1918. In 1919, this was replaced with a new table that showed club placings since 1897, and two supplementary tables showing cumulated placings for the periods 1897 to 1918 and 1870 to 1918. These supplementary tables remained in the Record until 1923, but were omitted from the 1924 editions of the Record, and did not reappear after that.
Since June 2016, the AFL Commission has formally recognised the top level of Victorian football back to 1870 as senior, which applies to both the unaffiliated period from 1870–1876 and the Victorian Football Association from 1877–1896. However, it maintains a distinction between the 1870–1896 competitions and the history of the VFL/AFL from 1897 onwards, and requires statistics and achievements from these periods to be delineated while at the same time allowing clubs to recognise these achievements in their own histories. |
If they want to celebrate 150 years since then (or 1858, or 1877, or 1990), then good on them, but it doesn't mean that year should be considered more significant in the history of this competition than the year that it was officially formed, which is 1897. By the same token, my partner and I sometimes celebrate the anniversary of the day we met (23 March), the anniversary of the day we started going out (14 August) and the day we became engaged (14 June). I guess some people just like anniversaries a lot!
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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The idea has been laughed off on various radio stations and others in the media. A few tweets by media people laughing it off as well.
From everything I've read into it seems:
Geelong as a club and it's fans are 100% for it. They want more recognition by the AFL and the other clubs as having 7 more flags than they are listed as having. (What they dont realise is they are credited with having 7 VFA flags, noone is saying they dont have them).
They are using other clubs past players and premierships as leverage to win over the AFL. So other clubs and former greats can also be recognised. But from what I can tell, they just want to jump up the premiership ladder.
Carlton as a club have not said anything. Someone from Geelong said they had support from the Blues, but if thats true, I'm not surprised and it also proves this is a push to be seen as a more successful club.
Carlton supporters are mostly for it, but many of these people wouldn't know the history of the club or the VFL or VFA and just want to be well in front. This can also be said for some Cats fans. I mean hey, its a massive jump in premierships.
Essendon fans are 50-50. They are divided as they are happy to get 4 flags, but many seem unhappy about falling 2 behind Carlton, but happy to get a big gap on Collingwood. Again, many supporters dont have the knowledge about the VFA and that it is in fact a completely separate league to the VFL and still in existence as the VFL today.
My best friend is an Essendon supporter, sorry K, I know you think you were my best friend. But he seems to think I'd be all for it if the Pies were going to get 7 more flags. My response to that is that it swings both ways. Would Geelong be all over this if it was another club, especially Collingwood, getting that much of a jump? There is absolutely no way in a billion years. For what it's worth my friend, the Essendon supporter, not K, agrees with me, but I feel he doesnt really posses the knowledge of the games history. He is more into whats happening now.
The non-Victorian teams are not impressed by it. Port fans have been the most vocal for obvious reasons. If Geelong want their VFA flags to count, then Port have every right to be upset that their SANFL flags are not. In my view, the VFA and SANFL are different competitions. West Coast fans are against it.
Every club has the right to be proud of their clubs history. We have a spot for our 1896 flag at the Holden Centre. But at the end of the day, the VFL started in 1898 and was rebranded in 1990. The VFA (now VFL) has its own history and all the flags won before the VFL spilt are included in their tallies.
If this was to go a head as what is being suggested, then the following clubs have the right to feel disrespected:
Port Adelaide Power. Because their SANFL flags will be ignored by the AFL when VFA flags will be included.
Hawthorn Football Club.
North Melbourne Football Club.
Western Bulldogs. (Footscray)
Richmond Football Club.
They all won VFA flags after 1897. Why should they be ignored? Are they less important to the games or those clubs history? Why shouldn't they count? Why is Geelong not pushing the case for these flags?
Port Melbourne Football Club.
They won the first flag after the VFL spilt in 1897. Why should that flag be viewed as less important at the one from one season earlier.... in the same competition? Also, when this club was on par with the now big clubs back then, why should they be forgotten about?
The following clubs have no right, but will be very happy (and gloating):
Geelong Football Club.
Carlton Football Club.
Huge Gap.
Essendon Football Club.
Again, most of these flags were awarded without a Grand Final having been played. Some of them were awarded to clubs that didnt even finish on top of the ladder. Some of them were won when there was only 5 teams playing. Some were won against teams that have not existed since the 1800's.
They were won in a different competition. I'm sorry but again, people should take their team alliance out of it. Then they'll see how ridiculous it is.
It's a push by a club that wants to have a more impressive premiership tally against their rivals. That's all. Geelong, you are a respected club. You've become a well run club and have boasted some of the greatest players of all time. Your club has a great stadium and is a massive chance to win the flag in 2019. Dont try to look for something that you think is unfair and quite simply will piss off every other club in the land with the exception of Carlton.
For the integrity of pretty much every club in the AFL and the VFL, do not do anything stupid. For the fans all over the country, dont do anything stupid. For the history of the VFA (current VFL), dont do anything stupid. And to save yourself from a huge mess, dont do anything stupid.
Leave it alone. Leave it as it is. And as it should be.
If any club wants a VFA/VFL cup made to put on display, then that can be taken up with the current VFL.
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Did anyone read what (allegedly "eminent" historian) Geoffrey Blainey said in the Hun a couple of days ago? It's reported that Blainey is a Carlton supporter. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Stupid idea and I hope the commission rejects it.
VFA and VFL/AFL are two separate leagues.
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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thebaldfacts
Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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| Think the number of premierships won should be reduced by the number of wooden spoons won. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| ^ Looks like Carlton, Essendon & Geebung are on 5 wooden spoons each. |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| thebaldfacts wrote: | | Think the number of premierships won should be reduced by the number of wooden spoons won. |
Based on your idea, this would be the tally:
Collingwood = 13
Carlton = 11
Essendon = 11
Richmond = 4
Geelong = 4
West Coast = 3
Hawthorn = 2
Adelaide = 2
Brisbane Lions = 1
Port Adelaide = 1
Melbourne = 0
Fitzroy = 0
Fremantle = -1
Gold Coast = -1
Western Bulldogs = -2
Brisbane Bears = -2
GWS = -2
University = -4
South Melbourne/Sydney = -6
North Melbourne = -9
St Kilda = -26
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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i can live with that!!!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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Essendon would equal our four in a row record 1891-2-3-4 under that plan.
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Get back on top. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| K wrote: | | Did anyone read what (allegedly "eminent" historian) Geoffrey Blainey said in the Hun a couple of days ago? It's reported that Blainey is a Carlton supporter. |
No – do you have the quote?
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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