David Hookes - Assualt or Manslaughter?

[Special Delivery]

And you were there every ten metres were you?

Surrounded probably by yelling, other idiotic security encouraging no doubt, while all throughout you have alcohol induced taunts and abuse. Yes, I can see it, him sitting there every ten metres like "The Thinker', hand on chin...'hmmmm-should I walk on or not?'

Absolutely no excuse though, but stopping and thinking?

Please.

Obviously he didn't have the capacity to deal with that situation-like many others. Hence the law reviews.

[CQ]

[piedys]

[London Dave]

[CQ]

i dont think ill be moving anywhere thankyou. besides i dont believe in 'allah' or any other 'god' for that matter.

well he will hopefully go to jail and we'll see how good his boxing skills are when its 5 vs 1, ha, he'll see what its like to be violated.

[London Dave]

[JLC]

[London Dave]

[dilly5]

I have to say that I'm with Special Delivery- this man did a stupid, irresponsible thing. But hang on hang on guys- let's not forget that it is very very unlikely that it was his intention to kill anyone.

Everyone who has seen or been a part of a fight would have to know that there's BIG difference between throwing a couple of punches to teach someone a lesson, and actually intending to hit them hard enough to induce a heart attack and hope their head hits the concrete hard enough to kill them.

There are PLENTY of people out there (not just bouncers) who have done exactly the same thing and no-one is too bothered, because the outcome hasn't been as tragic. He just happened to hit the wrong guy and inadvertently induce the most tragic outcome.

Let's be honest about this- if Hookesy hadn't died, we would be going "ahh, that mug who gave Hookesy a black eye and a bump on the head.... but I guess these things happen"- if he had survived, we probably wouldn't have even considered the prospect of him dying in a pub fight -- but because of the unfortunate result of what was meant to be nothing more than an (unfortunately common) bouncers' touch up, all of a sudden everyone wants this guy hanging by his thumbs....

[Blanch]

I think there's been some misconceptions regarding some of the law arguments. Some of us here who have put forward some sort of legal scenario seem to be getting lynched....but for what? the legal system exists so there's no point in naively disregarding it. WHAT THIS DOESN'T MEAN IS THAT WE CONDONE WHAT HE DID. Personally I think he's as big a piece of scum as the next person does, but the legal system is in place for a reason and I stand behind it.

Soft laws.....this is the best flippin country in the world to live in, soft laws or not.

There is always high emotion involved in these situations but emotion clouds judgement in a big way. Remove the emotion and look at the facts of the case. That is what the courts must do. The legal scenarios presented are not a "your wrong, I'm right" thing. It's more of a "don't be disappointed because murder probably won't happen and here is the reason why....etc"

To answer some questions posed earlier if it was my dad, uncle etc I would be calling for murder.....for a while, but my call would be emotionally charged, therefore my view clouded.

He set out to be a big man, to show his mates he was tough...I don't believe he went intentionally kill a man. Even if he did the prosecution could NEVER prove it without a confession. That is why you can scratch murder and pray the manslaughter charges stick. This guy is going to jail, no doubt about it. We have a chance to make some sort of good out of this terrible situation. David Hookes death cannot be undone, but the courts have a choice of how to handle another life. I'm one who still believes that some good can come of this much later on. I hope our judicial system sees things the same way.

[JLC]

[Special Delivery]

Now we're getting somewhere.

Stupidity and naivety are not defences-hence he will (I believe assassin) be doing time.

JLC you hit the nail on the head-he and all other crowd controllers must be put through a far more intensive program for conflict resolution-paid for by the AHA (Australian Hotels Association), and any other bodies that require their services, so quality staff are available.

And I'll just add that while I am a swing voter-Peter Costello should stay out of the debate. The law, and legal procedure failed David Hookes and many other patrons who have been victims of assault by not legislating effectively in this area of our society.

That's why the system failed, and why we have tragedies like this.

This incident has not been a case of wrong place/wrong time, it was a case of wrong person in the wrong job. Quite clearly indeed.

[dilly5]

JLC I am not suggesting for a second that his stupidity or naivety should be, or even IS his defence, and I have already admitted that I think bouncers go way over the line in too many cases- especially this one. I think it's appalling that he followed them that far from the pub to 'finish the job'.
My point is only that his idea of 'finishing the job' most likely didn't include killing anyone, and had Hookesy happened to survived, nobody would have thought twice about the fact that a couple of bouncers followed a couple of patrons for a knock around.

[JLC]

Ok if you didnt intend to kill someone wouldnt you check to see if they are ok ?? Surely you wouldnt just walk off as if nothing had happened ??

Its quite simple really if he stuck to crown controlling at the hotel where he was employed and didnt provide an "after hours service" to the patrons nothing would have happened. Its a pretty big effort to walk about 70 metres to follow someone.

jlc

[piedys]