 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
DaVe86 
Man of Steele
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| jackcass wrote: | | slydog81 wrote: | From what I saw in the magoos on the weekend I would have Adams ahead of JT atm.
Would love to see Broomhead get a run and Dwyer is also playing better than JT. |
Thomas and Adams may have had similar games against the Cats but I still think Thomas was the more creative of the 2. And Thomas has been more consistent. Adams the previous game was reportedly going at below 50% DE by foot, and according to reports lost confidence in his kicking to the point where he was opting to handball. Surely consistency of effort counts for something when selectors make their decisions.
Agree on Broomhead and was at a loss as to why Dwyer was dropped in the first place.
All that said, can't see too many changes being made beyond Brown - Keeffe unless Frost doesn't get up. I'd retain both Witts and Grundy. Adams, Thomas, Kennedy, Broomhead, Seedsman, and Dwyer would all be under consideration. Young and Fasolo should be worried. |
I suppose the theory is that Adams would replace Ball in the side. Ball's footskills are also very bad and I would say Adams has more penetration and footspeed than Ball. So although Adams is not the best user by foot, as a whole you get an improvement. I'm not saying I attest to this theory because I am still a huge Luke Ball fan, but I can see the merit.
I think Adams is the next best 'in and under' on the list that is at VFL level. I think JT is a gun clearances player, but he is not a 'bottom of the pack' player like Ball. Ball is the type that gets to ground level and dishes off a handball to an outside type like Swan. With Swan spending more time up forward, I actually see JT as his replacement in the middle...not Luke Ball's replacement.
It's hard to find room, but in my opinion we need to get more midfielders into the side. As I said, Swan is spending more time forward and Ball is not covering the ground very well. Sidebottom is starting on a wing and pushing back to be the +1. Macaffer is purely defensive. This is leaving all the burden on Pendlebury and Beams.
I'm not saying Ball is finished because if you watch last week's games, he did some amazing things in the second half and he clamped down on Priddis in the last. I just think we need to find more for more midfielders.
I agree that Fasolo and Young are the ones right on the fringe at the moment, which is a shame because they add qualities which other players on our list don't possess.
I think long term we will probably need to re-think Langdon's role if we already have Maxy, Williams and Toovey...and potentially Seedsman comes in to add some drive off half back.
I'm also not sure if you can have Fasolo, Elliott and Blair in the one side because neither are real midfield rotations. Port Adelaide do it well with Gray, Monfries and Wingard who all spend substantial time in the middle. This may be why we are seeing more of Elliott through the middle.
We might actually be looking at using Adams as a small forward or even Broomhead, and then they can rotate on the ball. Especially if we still want to use Goldsack up forward along with Cloke, White and Reid.
So many options. I'm so intrigued to see how Buckley goes about it. I do think though that the side is a bit flat at the moment and it would get a spark from the likes of Adams, JT, Kennedy, Seedsman or Martin coming into the team.
_________________
There's more to life than footy.........just not much more. |
|
|
|
 |
jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| DaVe86 wrote: | I suppose the theory is that Adams would replace Ball in the side. Ball's footskills are also very bad and I would say Adams has more penetration and footspeed than Ball. So although Adams is not the best user by foot, as a whole you get an improvement. I'm not saying I attest to this theory because I am still a huge Luke Ball fan, but I can see the merit.
I think Adams is the next best 'in and under' on the list that is at VFL level. I think JT is a gun clearances player, but he is not a 'bottom of the pack' player like Ball. Ball is the type that gets to ground level and dishes off a handball to an outside type like Swan. With Swan spending more time up forward, I actually see JT as his replacement in the middle...not Luke Ball's replacement.
It's hard to find room, but in my opinion we need to get more midfielders into the side. As I said, Swan is spending more time forward and Ball is not covering the ground very well. Sidebottom is starting on a wing and pushing back to be the +1. Macaffer is purely defensive. This is leaving all the burden on Pendlebury and Beams.
I'm not saying Ball is finished because if you watch last week's games, he did some amazing things in the second half and he clamped down on Priddis in the last. I just think we need to find more for more midfielders.
I agree that Fasolo and Young are the ones right on the fringe at the moment, which is a shame because they add qualities which other players on our list don't possess.
I think long term we will probably need to re-think Langdon's role if we already have Maxy, Williams and Toovey...and potentially Seedsman comes in to add some drive off half back.
I'm also not sure if you can have Fasolo, Elliott and Blair in the one side because neither are real midfield rotations. Port Adelaide do it well with Gray, Monfries and Wingard who all spend substantial time in the middle. This may be why we are seeing more of Elliott through the middle.
We might actually be looking at using Adams as a small forward or even Broomhead, and then they can rotate on the ball. Especially if we still want to use Goldsack up forward along with Cloke, White and Reid.
So many options. I'm so intrigued to see how Buckley goes about it. I do think though that the side is a bit flat at the moment and it would get a spark from the likes of Adams, JT, Kennedy, Seedsman or Martin coming into the team. |
God I hate well reasoned arguements... leaves no wriggle room... you're going to have to stop doing that...
Agree on Young and Fasolo. Not saying they should be dropped but one of the benefits of having reserves who are performing is that there is capacity to address poor performance in the seniors and at some stage that needs to be demonstrated by the selectors. That's when you'll start to get guys giving their all because they'll know there are consequences.
Agree we're lacking a bit of x-factor. Love to see Broomhead, Seedsman and Karnezis getting games soon because I think they more than any of the other guys not in the senior side bring that. |
|
|
|
|
Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Quote: | I suppose the theory is that Adams would replace Ball in the side. Ball's footskills are also very bad and I would say Adams has more penetration and footspeed than Ball. So although Adams is not the best user by foot, as a whole you get an improvement. I'm not saying I attest to this theory because I am still a huge Luke Ball fan, but I can see the merit.
I think Adams is the next best 'in and under' on the list that is at VFL level. I think JT is a gun clearances player, but he is not a 'bottom of the pack' player like Ball. Ball is the type that gets to ground level and dishes off a handball to an outside type like Swan. With Swan spending more time up forward, I actually see JT as his replacement in the middle...not Luke Ball's replacement.
It's hard to find room, but in my opinion we need to get more midfielders into the side. As I said, Swan is spending more time forward and Ball is not covering the ground very well. Sidebottom is starting on a wing and pushing back to be the +1. Macaffer is purely defensive. This is leaving all the burden on Pendlebury and Beams.
I'm not saying Ball is finished because if you watch last week's games, he did some amazing things in the second half and he clamped down on Priddis in the last. I just think we need to find more for more midfielders.
|
Yeah, Adams is more In and Under Type like Ball and while Thomas is more Like Beams
_________________
I am Da Man |
|
|
|
|
jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Dave The Man wrote: | | Quote: | I suppose the theory is that Adams would replace Ball in the side. Ball's footskills are also very bad and I would say Adams has more penetration and footspeed than Ball. So although Adams is not the best user by foot, as a whole you get an improvement. I'm not saying I attest to this theory because I am still a huge Luke Ball fan, but I can see the merit.
I think Adams is the next best 'in and under' on the list that is at VFL level. I think JT is a gun clearances player, but he is not a 'bottom of the pack' player like Ball. Ball is the type that gets to ground level and dishes off a handball to an outside type like Swan. With Swan spending more time up forward, I actually see JT as his replacement in the middle...not Luke Ball's replacement.
It's hard to find room, but in my opinion we need to get more midfielders into the side. As I said, Swan is spending more time forward and Ball is not covering the ground very well. Sidebottom is starting on a wing and pushing back to be the +1. Macaffer is purely defensive. This is leaving all the burden on Pendlebury and Beams.
I'm not saying Ball is finished because if you watch last week's games, he did some amazing things in the second half and he clamped down on Priddis in the last. I just think we need to find more for more midfielders.
|
Yeah, Adams is more In and Under Type like Ball and while Thomas is more Like Beams |
Well argued Dave. It's not that one is better than the other, it's because they bring different attributes and at the moment the team needs more of what Adams brings over what Thomas brings. |
|
|
|
|
Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| jackcass wrote: | | Agree we're lacking a bit of x-factor. Love to see Broomhead, Seedsman and Karnezis getting games soon because I think they more than any of the other guys not in the senior side bring that. |
Not that I disagree with your comments Daz but don't you think that Adams brings an X factor?
Mind you I'm the one who suggested well before the season that Adams should spend at least half the season in the VFL getting used to the Collingwood game plan and playing style (and got howled down for having that opinion) but I still believe he brings an X factor to the team as well. |
|
|
|
|
slydog81
Joined: 05 Sep 2011
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Where is Dwyers role on the team? he's not the same hard ball nut that JT and Adams are but he's in better form.
Broomhead's skills are delicious.
_________________
We're always up to mischief! |
|
|
|
|
Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| slydog81 wrote: | Where is Dwyers role on the team? he's not the same hard ball nut that JT and Adams are but he's in better form.
Broomhead's skills are delicious. |
Geez our depth is such a bloody worry these days........   |
|
|
|
|
Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| gurugeoff wrote: | Rest Swan, Rest Ball, others too maybe, to give some of these other guys a game. We need to work out who our best 22 is when finals come around.
It doesn't matter if player X is doing okay, if player Y in the reserves might be doing better if he got the chance.
Personally, I can't believe that Josh Thomas can't get a game, Sam Dwyer would be handy too. |
We just had a bye, we need to get as many games into our best 22 as possible, We need to create chemistry.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
|
|
|
|
jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Lazza wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Agree we're lacking a bit of x-factor. Love to see Broomhead, Seedsman and Karnezis getting games soon because I think they more than any of the other guys not in the senior side bring that. |
Not that I disagree with your comments Daz but don't you think that Adams brings an X factor?
Mind you I'm the one who suggested well before the season that Adams should spend at least half the season in the VFL getting used to the Collingwood game plan and playing style (and got howled down for having that opinion) but I still believe he brings an X factor to the team as well. |
You need to insert this as your footer because you seem to include it in most of your posts anyway...
For mine, Adams, like Luke Ball, brings grunt without too much flair so I can't understand the x-factor link. Can he sing or dance? Juggle maybe? Thomas actually has more footy flair than Adams.
At the moment, Elliott, Pendles, Swan and Sidebottom bring a little x-factor. Fasolo has shown he can but hasn't recaptured that sort of form yet. But none of them are on the same x-factor page as Dick, Didak, Davis, Medhurst and Krakouer of recent seasons. Seedsman does and Broomhead and Karnezis could. Dwyer possibly as well. |
|
|
|
|
Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Dave The Man wrote: | | FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | | One of those games where we need to consider the health of umpires. Goal umpires, that is. On one end there's a great risk of Repetitive strain injury through the constant waving of both arms while on the other we have the danger of Deep vein thrombosis due to lack of movement. Pies by 83! |
Don’t be that Cockie |
You're right, Dave, I shouldn't be that Cockie.
I'll be this Cockie instead.
Pies by 97!
_________________
Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
|
|
|
|
burnsy17 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Seen their injury list??
If we dont win this by a triple figure margin in perfect conditions at the Dome then we're kidding ourselves...
That said, pies by 27 
_________________
Beware the swooping Magpie. |
|
|
|
|
Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| burnsy17 wrote: | Seen their injury list??
If we dont win this by a triple figure margin in perfect conditions at the Dome then we're kidding ourselves...
That said, pies by 27 |
We'll be up by 70 odd at 3qtr time only to rack the cue and win by 30.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
|
|
|
|
MagpieMad 
One in, All in!!
Joined: 15 Jan 2001
Location: -37.798563,144.996641
|
| Post subject: | |
|
mattys123′s Match Preview Round 11 – Collingwood vs St.Kilda is up on the site
http://www.magpies.net/nick/?p=1490
cheers Matt
_________________
Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, Glory..... lasts forever! |
|
|
|
|
AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| DaVe86 wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | slydog81 wrote: | From what I saw in the magoos on the weekend I would have Adams ahead of JT atm.
Would love to see Broomhead get a run and Dwyer is also playing better than JT. |
Thomas and Adams may have had similar games against the Cats but I still think Thomas was the more creative of the 2. And Thomas has been more consistent. Adams the previous game was reportedly going at below 50% DE by foot, and according to reports lost confidence in his kicking to the point where he was opting to handball. Surely consistency of effort counts for something when selectors make their decisions.
Agree on Broomhead and was at a loss as to why Dwyer was dropped in the first place.
All that said, can't see too many changes being made beyond Brown - Keeffe unless Frost doesn't get up. I'd retain both Witts and Grundy. Adams, Thomas, Kennedy, Broomhead, Seedsman, and Dwyer would all be under consideration. Young and Fasolo should be worried. |
I suppose the theory is that Adams would replace Ball in the side. Ball's footskills are also very bad and I would say Adams has more penetration and footspeed than Ball. So although Adams is not the best user by foot, as a whole you get an improvement. I'm not saying I attest to this theory because I am still a huge Luke Ball fan, but I can see the merit.
|
Can't have that. Ball has no depth on his kicking, sure, but no way is he a "very bad" kick. He is a very smart footballer and makes good decisions with ball in hand. Nothing wrong with his short passing. Adams on the other hand has poor execution and poor decision making, and is as likely to make a mistake with a short kick as a long one. He can kick the ball further, that's about all he has on Ball.
| DaVe86 wrote: |
It's hard to find room, but in my opinion we need to get more midfielders into the side. As I said, Swan is spending more time forward and Ball is not covering the ground very well. Sidebottom is starting on a wing and pushing back to be the +1. Macaffer is purely defensive. This is leaving all the burden on Pendlebury and Beams.
|
As you said, Adams is more like Ball than Thomas is. If we're playing Ball then Thomas makes more sense as an in than Adams who has not shown any real flexibility as yet. If Adams plays, Ball pretty much needs to be rested if we want a good balance.
| DaVe86 wrote: |
I'm not saying Ball is finished because if you watch last week's games, he did some amazing things in the second half and he clamped down on Priddis in the last. I just think we need to find more for more midfielders.
|
He is still playing better than either Adams or Thomas. They need to show more to replace him, especially in such a key leadership position. Adams so far lacks maturity, Thomas is more settled, but is not yet showing the necessary form.
| DaVe86 wrote: |
I think long term we will probably need to re-think Langdon's role if we already have Maxy, Williams and Toovey...and potentially Seedsman comes in to add some drive off half back.
|
Don't see why. He's just about our best performed defender over the season. No way I'd have Williams ahead of him. He stays until others outperform him. So far that's not even close to happening.
| DaVe86 wrote: |
I'm also not sure if you can have Fasolo, Elliott and Blair in the one side because neither are real midfield rotations. Port Adelaide do it well with Gray, Monfries and Wingard who all spend substantial time in the middle. This may be why we are seeing more of Elliott through the middle.
|
Elliott is a real midfield rotation. Provided crucial minutes in the middle against the Eagles, and in other games has been playing all over the field. Fas can also do this. Blair is fine as a mid for short periods. I'd say Elliott is the best mid of the three.
| DaVe86 wrote: |
We might actually be looking at using Adams as a small forward or even Broomhead, and then they can rotate on the ball. Especially if we still want to use Goldsack up forward along with Cloke, White and Reid.
|
I see no chance of Adams playing forward. He doesn't look at all capable. If we want a forward who can rotate through the middle, the obvious option is Kennedy, not Adams or Broomhead, though the latter can do the job, Adams just isn't an option in my opinion.
_________________
Well done boys! |
|
|
|
|
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Adams is much faster than Ball, he's a better long and short kick, and he gets much more of the ball when played in the midfield. He showed what he can do when he played a whole game in the midfield against the cats in the NAB cup game, collecting over 30 disposals - something I can't recall Ball doing for several years. Put simply, Adams is a much improved model than the aging Ball. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
