trade bait

[paul]

Its been widely rumoured that Willo will be offered as trade bait.

I heard from "sources close to the club" that both Willo and Orch will be offered for the right trades. At least one of these has been informed "unofficially" by the club.

[foxy]

if willo goes to another club you can bet your life that he'll be an all-australian HFF or HBF within a few years. and we can't trade orch, he's a good player. or else he wouldn't have stayed in the swans side for so long.

[paul]

WE have to trade quality to get quality.

Other clubs are not going to be interested in blokes who couldn't get a regular game with the bottom team.

I hope neither go, particularly local boy Orchard, but if we can get player more suited to our needs, these are two which may have to be sacrificed.

[Mr_Plow]

We really cant afford to trade Willo. I still rate him as the 2nd best player at our club and he showed in the last few games he was almost back to his best.

If it was a deal to secure someone as good as Everitt then it had to be considered.

But Paul is right, we do need to trade some quality players.

We have 3 choices, trade guys like Orchard, trade valuable draft picks or take no part in any trading.

[Damien]

Orch was good enuff to be in Sydney's best side for the whole year, last year and I thought that he started this year of well, but i reckon his form in the 2nd half of the season has been very ordinairy, particularly when the going got heavy and you'd have thought he'd be in his element.

I think we should consider him in any trade package.

I know this sounds harsh, particularly since we did it to him once before to get Pebbles. But I reckon that was worth it in the long term and hard decisions have to be made to achieve success.

[Pie no sauce]

Any mention of trading Willo makes me want to chuck. It's short sighted, opportunistic, mutinous rhubarb to even think such thoughts. Collingwood has built it's whole base on the likes of the heart and character shown by this bloke. Sure, trade the ones who can't make it up the scale but reward ability especially when backed with club loyalty.
By the way, those advocating him to be ping'd ought to reflect on his style of play and just how valuable he will become if he is again given a chance to play in a team which enables him to play that style. The guys a bloody champion.
Now I've got that off my chest, I reckon the CFC wouldn't let him go anyway. He's in the same mould as Walker and look what they've done for him. That's Collingwood, let's not forget it.

[Mich@el]

Shut up!
87 goals from 95 games, a pathetic scoring ratio?! I think that is bloody good for a player who is not a set forward!! We need players like Patterson. I doubt if we are going to improve with all our players under 25!
Must have BALANCE

[Mich@el]

......oh and anyway, Bewick is the one who should make people PEWK!

[Damien]

The fact that a player with paralysis to one side of his body can play that many games is testament to the lack of depth on our list. Check the archive of this BB, many of us have been calling for Patterson's head for over 12 months.

He cannot slip the noose again this year, if he does we may as well wave the white flag before next season begins. And as for Jason Wild......

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Damien

[Lozza]

Now hang on a minute. I'm sure everybody knows my feelings on Jason "Now that Tony Shaw has gone I'm f#$%@d" Wild. Surely he cannot be offered for trade. Who the hell would want him???

[Bill Banks]

Out with Patterson and in with Jimmy Plunkett (Western Bulldogs reserves rover)

[ZED]

If Patterson and Wild are not delisted by the October 31 Draft, I might nominate myself. I cant play football have no skills ,two right feet and getting close to thirty.

[Charlie]

I have to get into this conversation.
Over the last few years we have gotten used to and made allowance for mediocre performances and mediocre skill levels. If it wasn't for Buckley, we would be obsolutely totally devoid of any appreciation of REAL skill. I realise that not all our players can be as good as him, but the gap is far too wide.
Its not good enough to be pleased with the odd win against sides which are not on the boil. I am sick of hearing people say how good our average players are. jeez, we are becoming just like fricking Richmond supporters. This attitude does not help the club, it only allows players and administrators hold onto their positions longer than they deserve to.
If we were any good, why have we finished last ?. To say we have young players coming in is o.k., but don't other teams have young players coming in also ?. Who won the Rising star award ?, not us. Other teams have up and coming players too. lets not fool ourselves, the players in question which we are all talking about are shit. They will not stand up in a top 8 team. We should build a top 4 team, players on our list who can't get into or don't have the potential to get into the current top 4 teams should not remain on our list.
Who would you like to have in your team running around ?
Cousins, Read, Morrison, Wirapunda or Orchard, Patterson, Wild, Godden ?

At the start of this year, Robert Walls placed us into the bottom 4 teams. I though 'crap' he doesn't know what he's talking about. We have lots of good players 'you wait and see' I told my friends, 'well be pushing into the 8'.
How wrong I was , and how right Mr. Walls was.
Watching top opposition teams, I am in awe of their young players development, I am in owe of their older players high standards. I realise how complacent we have been accepting average players as good players. Our standing against the other 15 teams this year is testimony to this.
Appraise our players where it really counts : look closely at top opposition players. How do our players really stack up against them ?.

[Damien]

Charlie, See below, my post from July 30 this year:

"With all the current debate about who we should delist/trade and who we should keep, something hit home while reading James Hird's article in Wednesday's Herald-Sun.
He listed Heffernan, Solomon, Rioli, Johnson and Prior as the bottom five players in Essendon's best 22 and Power, Lawrence, Keating Black and Johnson as the last five players in Brisbane's best 22.

Any of these guys would walk into our best 22.

My point is, as a group of supporters we have sub-consciously allowed our idea of an acceptable standard of player to drop due to several years of poor on-field performance.

This becomes obvious when people start trying to justify keeping the likes of Patterson, Wild, McDonald, Crow, Watson, Richardson and Tape.

While I'm sure these guys are all good blokes and there is some feeling of loyalty to them simply because they have donned the black and white jumper, the fact is these guys form the nucleus of the second 11 of our best 22 and are simply not up to the task and should go.

It could be argued that Schauble, Presti, Godden, Olarenshaw and Orchard should also be added to this list, however this will depend on a lot of other factors, ie: how the draft pans out and who wants to trade.

As for the 'kids', while there is no doubt that they will not all make it, most have shown enough to justify another season before a decision is made on their future."

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I rest my case.....I hope Eddie and Co. are ruthless in their pursuit of any player that there is a remote chance of getting, ie: Colbert, Everitt, Gherig etc...




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Damien

[Mick]

Charlie

You are absolutely spot on with your assessments. For the Club to go forward all sections of the Club must be assessed against the best. We fall into the trap of comparing our players with other pies players.

For a team that has so many good young players why is it that we only scored 2 rising star nominations? This should be a measuring stick of the recruiting department's performance.

As far as quality is concerned we often confuse the players best games as being their average level of performance. With the exception of Buckley and only Buckley no other player on our list has performed consistently to their ability. Not one. Logically they are all tradeable. Adelaide - back to back premiers have set a list of only 6 untouchables. Why because the rest may have peaked at the right time in the past but cannot produce it consistently. They've stopped dreaming about how good Shane Ellen was that day and maybe, just maybe he can do it again and realised that guys like MacLeod will and have done it again and they are better people to build the club around.

I'll provide a Collingwood example. Scott Burns. We all love his attack on the footy but he is not a star player in the league. He has not put together a full season with injury and suspension and the form dips that go with such abscences, are we really getting value? Yet everyone on this board would rate him in their top 5 pies players. He would not make the top 10-15 in the best teams. Compare to Scott Welsh of the Kangas - he blitzed us this year yet is likely to be traded at the end of the year and a 50-50 chance to finish in the seniors this year. Contrast the reaction we would have given to Tarrant if he'd kicked as many. We'd have him pencilled in as a champion. Likewise this buzz about getting Dew from Port - why? He was an emergency in the 7th placed side. He kicked one bag. Port want to let him go. But we're excited because its those one-off cameos that we tolerate as player potential at our own Club.

Finally, measuring where a player finishes in the Copeland is an irrelevancy. We all hate Mike Sheehan but things like his top 50 players are 80% right. Media player awards and brownlow votes all stack up. Have a look at how we go in all these before people accept our list as being quality.

I believe MM and crew will bring that hard nosed approach of assessment to the Club. The board need to. Salary negotiations must be easy at CFC.