| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Big Dan
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: The Outside World
|
| Post subject: Have we turned in to 2000's Blues? |  |
|
I was having this debate with my in-laws yesterday and somethings seems to make some sense.
Carlton 2000's:
* Above average forward line.
* Good midfield.
* Below average backline.
* Below average coaching.
Collingwood 2017:
* Below average forward line.
* Good midfield.
* Above average backline.
* Below average coaching.
Both teams went down the path of continually chasing external players to fill holes in recruiting/perceived lack of talent in draft (Carlton due to salary cap penalties, Pies due to high ladder finishes affecting draft position).
Both lost a large amount of experienced first 22 players with no apparent replacements in the reserves/next level down.
Both gave up the earth to chase a midfield messiah (Carlton - Kennedy and first round pick for Judd, Collingwood 2 first round picks for Treloar).
Both have used a considerable amount of top round picks for not much return.
Although no where near the 8, it has taken the Blues almost 20 years to assemble a list that looks to be providing hope at both ends of the ground. This was after spending the same time trying to build the strongest midfield with no thought about KPP defenders (or refusing to accept that what they had is simply not good enough).
Right now, it feels as if Collingwood have followed the same mistakes to a tee.
Carlton's arrogance from the 1995 GF lasted over 20 years - finally ending in 2016 when they hired Bolton and admitted that the "old" way of doing things does't work. Make no mistake, what Silvagni is doing now is cleaning the list cloggers out, bringing in talent that would have taken 5 picks by trading out 1 (thanks GWS!).
The question is when will our board wake up and realise that the current strategy, on face value, looks to be returning zero in terms of positive results? Or do we have a board that is too pig headed to admit these failings?
Last year Ed stood on his soap box and said "coach for the team you have, not what you want", "I can't watch this anymore" blah blah blah.
12 months on, almost 20% of the season over, nothing looks to have changed.
Reality is that I had no expectations of making the 8 this year - but I did expect to see light at the end of the tunnel as I really, really want Bucks to be a success. Does Geoff Walsh have the balls and the backing to do Bucks what Swann did to Pagan? |
|
|
|
 |
thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
And we picked up Mayne.
A good ordinary player.
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Compare that to a bad ordinary player. |
|
|
|
|
BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Gee when we play the 2017 Blues we are NO certainty whatsoever
_________________
I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
|
|
|
|
Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
|
| Post subject: | |
|
This is my greatest fear, at least football wise
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
|
|
|
|
Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: Re: Have we turned in to 2000's Blues? | |
|
| Big Dan wrote: | I was having this debate with my in-laws yesterday and somethings seems to make some sense.
Carlton 2000's:
* Above average forward line.
* Good midfield.
* Below average backline.
* Below average coaching.
Collingwood 2017:
* Below average forward line.
* Good midfield.
* Above average backline.
* Below average coaching.
Both teams went down the path of continually chasing external players to fill holes in recruiting/perceived lack of talent in draft (Carlton due to salary cap penalties, Pies due to high ladder finishes affecting draft position).
Both lost a large amount of experienced first 22 players with no apparent replacements in the reserves/next level down.
Both gave up the earth to chase a midfield messiah (Carlton - Kennedy and first round pick for Judd, Collingwood 2 first round picks for Treloar).
Both have used a considerable amount of top round picks for not much return.
Although no where near the 8, it has taken the Blues almost 20 years to assemble a list that looks to be providing hope at both ends of the ground. This was after spending the same time trying to build the strongest midfield with no thought about KPP defenders (or refusing to accept that what they had is simply not good enough).
Right now, it feels as if Collingwood have followed the same mistakes to a tee.
Carlton's arrogance from the 1995 GF lasted over 20 years - finally ending in 2016 when they hired Bolton and admitted that the "old" way of doing things does't work. Make no mistake, what Silvagni is doing now is cleaning the list cloggers out, bringing in talent that would have taken 5 picks by trading out 1 (thanks GWS!).
The question is when will our board wake up and realise that the current strategy, on face value, looks to be returning zero in terms of positive results? Or do we have a board that is too pig headed to admit these failings?
Last year Ed stood on his soap box and said "coach for the team you have, not what you want", "I can't watch this anymore" blah blah blah.
12 months on, almost 20% of the season over, nothing looks to have changed.
Reality is that I had no expectations of making the 8 this year - but I did expect to see light at the end of the tunnel as I really, really want Bucks to be a success. Does Geoff Walsh have the balls and the backing to do Bucks what Swann did to Pagan? |
I think our Board and President Eddie are to Pig Headed to make any Changes.
I would think a New Board would not be a Bad Thing
_________________
I am Da Man |
|
|
|
|
BEAMER09
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Far from it.
Our issue is one and two if you count Ed.
It's really that simple!!!
_________________
COLLINGW09D |
|
|
|
|
Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
|
| Post subject: | |
|
nah, the scum rarely played kids, they tried to buy flags, ala judd etc.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
|
|
|
|
ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Piesnchess wrote: | | nah, the scum rarely played kids, they tried to buy flags, ala judd etc. |
And would love to have Kennedy and Betts in their forward line.
_________________
Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
|
|
|
|
Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
As I recall the last thing the Blues did before they went right off the cliff was sack a favourite son coach in order to chase one with a record of success.
Doesn't always work out. |
|
|
|
|
BEAMER09
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Redlight wrote: | As I recall the last thing the Blues did before they went right off the cliff was sack a favourite son coach in order to chase one with a record of success.
Doesn't always work out. |
It will work out for this club...
_________________
COLLINGW09D |
|
|
|
|
derkd
Joined: 29 May 2013
|
| Post subject: Re: Have we turned in to 2000's Blues? | |
|
| Big Dan wrote: | I was having this debate with my in-laws yesterday and somethings seems to make some sense.
Carlton 2000's:
* Above average forward line.
* Good midfield.
* Below average backline.
* Below average coaching.
Collingwood 2017:
* Below average forward line.
* Good midfield.
* Above average backline.
* Below average coaching.
Both teams went down the path of continually chasing external players to fill holes in recruiting/perceived lack of talent in draft (Carlton due to salary cap penalties, Pies due to high ladder finishes affecting draft position).
Both lost a large amount of experienced first 22 players with no apparent replacements in the reserves/next level down.
Both gave up the earth to chase a midfield messiah (Carlton - Kennedy and first round pick for Judd, Collingwood 2 first round picks for Treloar).
Both have used a considerable amount of top round picks for not much return.
Although no where near the 8, it has taken the Blues almost 20 years to assemble a list that looks to be providing hope at both ends of the ground. This was after spending the same time trying to build the strongest midfield with no thought about KPP defenders (or refusing to accept that what they had is simply not good enough).
Right now, it feels as if Collingwood have followed the same mistakes to a tee.
Carlton's arrogance from the 1995 GF lasted over 20 years - finally ending in 2016 when they hired Bolton and admitted that the "old" way of doing things does't work. Make no mistake, what Silvagni is doing now is cleaning the list cloggers out, bringing in talent that would have taken 5 picks by trading out 1 (thanks GWS!).
The question is when will our board wake up and realise that the current strategy, on face value, looks to be returning zero in terms of positive results? Or do we have a board that is too pig headed to admit these failings?
Last year Ed stood on his soap box and said "coach for the team you have, not what you want", "I can't watch this anymore" blah blah blah.
12 months on, almost 20% of the season over, nothing looks to have changed.
Reality is that I had no expectations of making the 8 this year - but I did expect to see light at the end of the tunnel as I really, really want Bucks to be a success. Does Geoff Walsh have the balls and the backing to do Bucks what Swann did to Pagan? |
Where we stand now it is a fair worry and not a completely terrible comparison ...and if we do switch coaches success can be instant or it can take time...or it never comes. Look at Carlton under the run of coaches they had...the only one who i think really could have taken them places was Ratten.
The major difference between Collingwood currently and Calrton then is that Carlton got stung for breaching salary cap and lost draft picks in 02' as i recall? and it was huge pick 1 & 2 and all preseason picks the next year. Someone can correct me if i am wrong...either way they are only really just recovering now.
_________________
"To know nothing of events before your birth, is to forever remain a child" - Cicero (Roman Lawyer/Senator) 46 BCE. |
|
|
|
|
DT
Joined: 06 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Big Dan you are correct. Carlton has bypassed us now. And we are as delusional as they were pre Bolton.
_________________
Daicos, impossible angle ... Goal! |
|
|
|
|
piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
|
| Post subject: Re: Have we turned in to 2000's Blues? | |
|
| derkd wrote: | | Where we stand now it is a fair worry and not a completely terrible comparison ...and if we do switch coaches success can be instant or it can take time...or it never comes. Look at Carlton under the run of coaches they had...the only one who i think really could have taken them places was Ratten. |
Ratten's sacking was an over-reaction to losing to GCS in 2012.
They would claim many more scalps in 2013/2014, including ours twice.
Which is when we should have offloaded our numpty too.
| derkd wrote: | | The major difference between Collingwood currently and Calrton then is that Carlton got stung for breaching salary cap and lost draft picks in 02' as i recall? and it was huge pick 1 & 2 and all preseason picks the next year. Someone can correct me if i am wrong...either way they are only really just recovering now. |
They lost the picks which went to St.Rapist who secured Goddard [who grew up a Carlton supporter]; and North, who grabbed.... one D.Wells!
http://www.afl.com.au/draft/draft-history/
_________________
M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
|
|
|
|
Magpies035
Joined: 07 May 2016
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Interesting comparison. Post 2012 our long term plan for our future looks clouded. There have been many predictions by the club with little to show for it.
I do agree that on face value I'm not sure our recruitment has worked and our skill level is still poor as it was even under Malthouse
While the midfield is A gread they don't do too much damage and our Fwd and Back needs help. Key position players are not there in the long term.
Are we any better than Carlton. We will find out soon
_________________
The Great Macedonian Marvel |
|
|
|
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
