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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Meanwhile
| Quote: | For years Australia's farmers have pegged their future prosperity on the growing Chinese market, but those targeted by a barrage of trade sanctions are developing new trade ties.
Twelve months after Beijing kicked off rolling trade sanctions by slapping tariffs on barley, affected exporters are waking from their Chinese dreams and offsetting losses by trading with other countries.
The shift has prompted a leading Australian think tank to label Beijing's strategic campaign of economic "coercion" against Canberra a failure. |
Other industry's are doing similar, while they may not all be making as much profit, they're unlikely to fold. Developing alternative markets rather than putting all the eggs in the China basket was always the smart thing to do, now people have been burned they've learned. It's unlikely that in future China will be in a position to hold so much power over our economy, whether the trade situation repairs or not.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2021-05-17/after-12-months-of-the-trade-war-is-the-china-dream-over/100127874
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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<Let’s try to keep conversation on topic and not engage in personal attacks, please. Thanks, David for BBMods.>
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Repeating this here just to make sure you read another view before listening to the Glibs' next monumentally reckless policy failure, blowing yourselves up this time rather than Iraqi children, which I guess is morally preferable at some level.
| pietillidie wrote: | This bloke puts more meat on the bones of the ideological extremist vote grab masquerading as China policy everyone's falling over themselves to support like drunks dribbling in their Y-fronts.
You've got the cheap domestic Facebook vote play by the Glibs (blindingly obvious); Anglophile/evangelical Glib nutters emboldened by Trump (blindingly obvious — hence a Neanderthal like Dumbo Dutton is laughably Minister for Defence alongside Captain Hillsong); a pathetic cowardly opposition scared of its own shadow (blindingly obvious); and hidden self-reinforcing security industry nutters (Keating's words — something others may know more about, but they're famed for this, having no public accountability).
It's the deranged Trumping of Australian foreign policy: a clueless, big-mouthed, incoherent, lurching religious quackery.
The result is a dangerous lack of coherent policy, complete unpreparedness for contingencies, and an off-siding of regional partners. As the flaky Trump-like creepy weirdo in the region, Australia has no sophisticated policy, thought or planning to even explain to regional partners, undermining the most crucial means of peace, wealth and security it has.
| Select quotes from some old Fairfax journo in the Fin Review in May wrote: | Over recent months I have sought to find out why and how Australia did a U-turn on China policy so abruptly, what the policy objective was, and why we have sustained it in such a clumsy and expensive and now belligerent fashion.
The conclusion is that while we dramatically changed our approach, we did not define a policy objective for the new relationship with China or a strategy to achieve it. Nor did we thoroughly review alternative options. We elevated anger about Chinese activities in Australia and latent ministerial hostility towards China, turning threadbare slogans into policy. Traditional measured, thoughtful policy-making in an area of such great importance is lost.
In 2021, domestic political advantage is now a key driver of China policy.
A majority of ministers were quickly persuaded their long-held antipathy to China had been justified, and they were open to an aggressive response. Australia should not be pushed around by China, they decided. We must stand up for our values.
Quite early, the domestic political advantages of a China threat narrative were grasped by coalition ministers and advisers. It would play to the Coalition’s polling strength as a defender of national security. The ALP could be wedged as a friend of Beijing. Washington would approve. For Malcolm Turnbull, re-elected with a bare majority of one, the hawks of the Abbott rump of the Coalition backbench would be mollified. In 2021, domestic political advantage is now a key driver of China policy.
One insider confirms the intelligence agencies were the effective advocates for the change. An enthusiastic supporter of their assertiveness and still actively involved in administering our approach to China, remarks: “Paul Keating claimed that if the security agencies were running foreign policy, ‘the nutters are in charge’ … discount Paul’s characteristic language about nutters… he was fundamentally right!”
One still-serving official says: “Without Trump, the hawks would not have had the moxie to develop their insane line that we had no choice but to divert trade flows and supply chains.”
There is a curious aspect of the approach of some hawks I talked to in government. Trade with China is referred to not as trade but as “money” and the inference is that it is dirty money.
It is odd to report this but not only is trade disparaged, and economic opportunity and its vital underpinning of national economic strength shrugged off: business is publicly described as “difficult”, privately as corrupted by China and disloyal.
The Government’s pursuit of electoral advantage, the Opposition’s cowed fear of dissent, the raw language of ministers and officials, the sensational leaks to inspire fear and paranoia and the chorus of even wilder spirits in the coalition backbench and in the intelligence community, think tanks and the press makes Australia a danger to itself.
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https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/how-australia-got-badly-out-in-front-on-china-20210428-p57n8x |
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Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Ok so I was gullible enough to fall for this one too, but how many times do people need to get hoodwinked by News Corp before they stop believing the rubbish they print? 
https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/virus/13347758
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Developing alternative markets rather than putting all the eggs in the China basket was always the smart thing to do... |
Well, it would have been when some of us were calling vociferously for it. Which begs the question, of course: why have so many people excitedly, religiously and fanatically supported the Glibs in aggressively pursuing the exact opposite for 20 years?
The record is startling: the mining industry-Glib coalition which opposed a mining windfall tax to be invested in the development of other industries; the undermining of climate science/green energy/green tech and pi$$ing away of Australia's natural advantages in this regard; the creation a corrupt revolving door between Glib HQ and Big Mining, ensuring corrupt mining thugs ran national policy solely for their own short-term interest; the desperate wrecking of a once-in-a-generation opportunity to roll out HQ broadband, the key underlying infrastructure of 21st-century industry and jobs; the appointment of that great hater of science, technology and economic base broadening, and mining's chief hand and propagandist, Abbott; the dismissal of the now globally dominant tech industry as a latte sipping cafe fad as if it were a trivial aside in the culture wars, not the major industry on many major global indices today; and much more. The Glibs have undermined economic broadening at every single step and turn for two decades and are clearly its outright avowed enemies.
It's astonishing to think that the very same ideological extremists and quacks who created this narrow and distorted economy are the very same kooks who supported Iraq and fawned over Trump, and the very same whackos sleepwalking Australia into disaster in Asia because Alan Jones and the Send Somalians Home Facebook Group concur.
It's beyond comprehension and bears reiterating: the very same fanatics who have got every major issue wrong for 20 years have been handed the authority to deal with China and the region on your behalf; i.e., the dumbest set of people you could possibly throw a blanket over anywhere on earth have been appointed to deal with the most difficult, vexing and consequential problem arguably ever facing Australia.
Australia is sleepwalking into a dumb-arse led disaster fronted by utter human waste whose high points include: supporting Bush and Cheney's catastrophic and monstrously repugnant and expensive Afghanistan and Iraq war failures; creating massive economic sector underdevelopment by selling out the national interest to Big Mining for easy money and political power; undermining science, technology and learning in a desperate grab for the climate change denying, anti-vaxxing, conspiracy mongering, science-hating vote; and fawning after failed mass wrecker and international embarrassment, Trump, becoming the malignant narcissist's collateral damage in Asia.
It's as if people sat down and said: let's appoint the most drooling, foul-stenched Neanderthals we can find who have got every major issue completely wrong for two decades without fail, turning everything they touch into dog faeces, and wasting every penny the nation earned for two decades on lining their own pockets through the mining industry revolving door, because we are literally going with the most lowlife, ignorant, incompetent scumbags we can find to stick it to the universe in one last giant middle finger of destruction on China and Asia.
Honestly, utterly creepy crackpot Dutton as Defence Minister and suburban shoe store retail manager and weekend church pot luck master Captain Hillsong are the best you've got leading on China and Asian region policy? Are the Church of Scientology and the Taliban also making submissions? Perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church and al-Shabab could be called in to bring some sophisticated contemporary cultural awareness to bear on the challenge?
God bloody help us all. It's criminal negligence of the highest order, yet again. It would be slapstick comedy if it weren't so horrifying.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | Meanwhile
| Quote: | For years Australia's farmers have pegged their future prosperity on the growing Chinese market, but those targeted by a barrage of trade sanctions are developing new trade ties.
Twelve months after Beijing kicked off rolling trade sanctions by slapping tariffs on barley, affected exporters are waking from their Chinese dreams and offsetting losses by trading with other countries.
The shift has prompted a leading Australian think tank to label Beijing's strategic campaign of economic "coercion" against Canberra a failure. |
Other industry's are doing similar, while they may not all be making as much profit, they're unlikely to fold. Developing alternative markets rather than putting all the eggs in the China basket was always the smart thing to do, now people have been burned they've learned. It's unlikely that in future China will be in a position to hold so much power over our economy, whether the trade situation repairs or not.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2021-05-17/after-12-months-of-the-trade-war-is-the-china-dream-over/100127874 |
my hubby has been saying this for over 10 years, hopefully one good thing comes out of this pandemic and thats that we take away the power we have given China over our economy, as you say here. Scary thought having China march through our streets and Parliaments. its about Australia called their bluff and found other markets, even if its not as profitable. i still think in someways its mother natures way of saying enough is enough, and the whole world needs to make countries such as China, and indeed themselves, stop treating live animals as their own private playthings. Stop treating the ocean as landfill, and quit using such harmful manufacturing processes.
so yeah i could not agree more with you.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Cheers Jo. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Of course she does
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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<Post about animal abuse moved here:
https://magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87257&start=390
Just as a reminder, let's please keep this thread to the topic of international relations and Chinese government activities, and not turn it into a laundry list of every shock horror story emerging from the country.>
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I thought the Huawei thing had some hysterical undertones, but it ultimately was probably the right call not to open that particular Pandora's Box. From the WA Today article above:
| Quote: | The official said the real problem was that Beijing could order Huawei or the other major Chinese telecoms gear maker, ZTE, “to switch things off, and that disrupts the country – elements of it, or the whole country. That’s why you’ve got to be concerned.
“The sewerage pump stops working. Clean water doesn’t come to you. You can imagine the social implications of that. Or the public transport network doesn’t work. Or electric cars that are self-driving don’t work. And that has implications for society, implications for the economy.”
For these reasons, he said, the 5G network would be “No.1 on our critical infrastructure list” in need of protection once it was fully operational.
Huawei has always insisted that if so ordered by China’s authorities, it would never comply. The prime minister who made the 2018 decision, Malcolm Turnbull, did not believe the company: “One thing you know – if the Chinese Communist Party called on Huawei to act against Australia’s interests, it would have to do it,” he said in an interview for the book. “Huawei says, ‘Oh no, we would refuse.’ That’s laughable. They would have no option but to comply.”
Beijing passed a 2017 law that requires all companies, private as well as publicly owned, to co-operate with the Chinese government on any national security matter. |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Yep. And as we know the CCP have no qualms about using any means to apply leverage.
That was all some very interesting stuff Pi. Thanks for that.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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One of the few serious and intelligent Australian politicians you would trust to get the policy right and be diligent enough to do the hard work needed:
| Penny Wong wrote: | In an address to a Canberra book launch, Senator Wong said Prime Minister Scott Morrison had been indulging in political opportunism in foreign affairs.
"My concern is that not only does he not fully comprehend Australia's interests in relation to China, he doesn't even seek to," she said.
"It's always about the domestic political advantage — either in the internal fights within the Liberal Party in pandering to the far right, or in seeking to pursue some partisan advantage over the Labor Party." |
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| David wrote: | I thought the Huawei thing had some hysterical undertones, but it ultimately was probably the right call not to open that particular Pandora's Box. From the WA Today article above:
| Quote: | The official said the real problem was that Beijing could order Huawei or the other major Chinese telecoms gear maker, ZTE, “to switch things off, and that disrupts the country – elements of it, or the whole country. That’s why you’ve got to be concerned.
“The sewerage pump stops working. Clean water doesn’t come to you. You can imagine the social implications of that. Or the public transport network doesn’t work. Or electric cars that are self-driving don’t work. And that has implications for society, implications for the economy.”
For these reasons, he said, the 5G network would be “No.1 on our critical infrastructure list” in need of protection once it was fully operational.
Huawei has always insisted that if so ordered by China’s authorities, it would never comply. The prime minister who made the 2018 decision, Malcolm Turnbull, did not believe the company: “One thing you know – if the Chinese Communist Party called on Huawei to act against Australia’s interests, it would have to do it,” he said in an interview for the book. “Huawei says, ‘Oh no, we would refuse.’ That’s laughable. They would have no option but to comply.”
Beijing passed a 2017 law that requires all companies, private as well as publicly owned, to co-operate with the Chinese government on any national security matter. |
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No problems with declaring 5G critical national infrastructure, which it is. Pity the Glibs ruined that other critical national infrastructure, the NBN, and have failed to create a tech ecosystem or skill the country — tech is just a leftist cafe fad in their pea brains, recall — to do anything economically useful with 5G, so the benefits of even their clueless and distorted output will be wasted.
In fact, that's a very reliable warning signal for you to check just how they're using this to ruin Australia's 5G by taking shortcuts, paying mates for clueless advice, and giving contracts to incompetent buddies for political gain. They don't do things in the national interest, they do things for lazy, short-term political cycle wins, with any actual national interest coincidental.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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