 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
^^^The truth hurts, apparently.
It's the Chinese what done it!
Our dependence on mining, decision to join the Coalition of the Willing and create millions of refugees, refusal to create alternative industry, poisoning of the reef, belief in Fred Fathead's climate denial, inability to implement forestry management, refusal to increase inner-ring housing density — it's the Chinese I tell yer! It's the bloody Chinese! Let's invade Vanuatu and exact revenge!
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
 |
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ PTID, is that really helpful right now? 
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
Oh Bullshit x 2 |
| Morrigu wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
Oh Bullshit x 2 |
Nah bull elephant dung x 15 would be more accurate  |
| think positive wrote: | | think positive wrote: | <snip – offensive language moderated. Thanks, David for BBMods.>
i only read a few snippets of the above garbage, (4 trumps and a couple of other names for him) and the last line as i knew it would be a tirade of name calling, somethings never change!
#fuckchina!
CHINA DID THIS! all. on. their. own!
and yes WHO are a $�$%^%%$ disgrace in all this, you want cowards and liars, thats where to look! |
are you $�$%^%%$ kidding me?? look at the post above, most of that line was directly taken from your godfather! dont see you moderating him! you could have taken out that one word.
he is the most offensive person here, look at what he calls americans. but thats ok? |
Offering life advice might be beyond my remit as a moderator, but I think the three of you need to have a proverbial Bex and a lie-down. It sounds like you're letting emotion get the better of you. I understand that things are tense right now, but I don't see any reason why we can't discuss these issues civilly.
If you can be bothered reading my posts here, you'll see that I and PTID actually disagree on quite a lot on this topic; I just don't feel the need to sling names at him (and I don't see him calling anyone here names either). |
bullshit.
read the last paragraph, its obvious where he points those names, the ones i used. if i recall name calling is supposed to get you kicked out. i can go through any of his posts and he slags off everyone. I dont need a bex, i need a fair go at free speech, or at least an equal one.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | ^ PTID, is that really helpful right now? |
well Supernanny, thats sitting him on the naughty step!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Perhaps we all could share some of that Bex around! (Actually, I need to get off Nick's and do some work.) I do encourage posters to use the report function if they feel that something goes against the rules; it's not like I'm the only one who looks at it!
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | I must confess I'm not entirely sure what you have in mind by a "new story", or where such discourse would begin. If you have any specific thoughts on that, I'd love to hear it. But in the meantime, I do wonder sometimes if your reaction to racists and nationalists is pushing you too far in the other direction; i.e. essentially playing devil's advocate where China is concerned. It's pretty understandable when the dominant discourse is pure hostility (certainly seems to be where this thread is at right now), and anything that resembles nuance and humility – i.e. the acknowledgement of not knowing and of being able to admit to vast information gaps, something that I've learned to accept over the years – becomes highly appealing. But the reason I started this thread is that I feared that that response, which has, to various extents, been present in progressive and certain establishment approaches to China for a long time now (in which anyone vaguely to the left of centre has a laundry list of the various failings and malevolences of any given Republican US administration but can offer nothing more than a shrug of the shoulders at Xi's record), is part of a bigger process of sleepwalking into a situation we can't get out of, in which we're wholly subject and vulnerable to the hegemony of an authoritarian, "unreformed" China.
At times, I've told myself what you say in your penultimate paragraph, that the arrow of national development points towards liberalism and that, whatever the future of our economic reliances, our most cherished freedoms and cultural values will still be preserved. But watching liberalism crumble throughout the West in recent years has been a bit of a reality check, to say the least. I don't think any of us can say for sure that China won't liberalise; but it's certainly looking increasingly possible that their model of authoritarian capitalism will not only survive indefinitely there but also become the new template for the societies around it. And given that spending my last years as a character in a George Orwell novel wasn't exactly high on the list of my life ambitions, I must confess that does scare me a little.
So yeah, I think we're in agreement on the basic stuff: China's economic development should be fostered and supported, and stupid trade wars (or, worse, actual sabre-rattling) are counterproductive and only embolden the nationalist authoritarians on both sides. As much as I loathe our major parties' often mealy-mouthed approach to the relationship, I concede that something like what we've been doing so far is probably the only way forward: treating China as not an ally but as a legitimate world player that we need to have some kind of relationship with, while perhaps keeping one eye open when we go to sleep at night. And of course keep fighting our own cultures' own self-destructive urges, which will be a battle in its own right. |
I think we already have the best answers for now, namely the liberal welfare state as the goal, and competition-based economic development as the necessary condition. Have you heard anything better? I've argued in the past that the weakness of the development story is that is doesn't fit highly decentralised and tribal cultures, so I don't have a single development model in mind here. China might well be too vast and sprawling for the type of centralised model we're used to seeing, but the indications are promising for the traditional model precisely because of communism.
Chomsky is dead right when he goes on about the fact that the developed economies all grew through imperialist theft followed by a healthy dose of protectionism. No one disputes this; conveniently, though, they omit it. This to me makes China's development along traditional 'Rostowian' lines more likely; i.e., it has strong centralising forces (nationalism and communism), imperialism, and a combination of liberal trade and heavy protectionism. This fits the classical development model to a T. I also think we grossly underestimate the level of internal competition within China in our ignorant mind's eye. I for one see an extremely driven and competitive culture.
On my views of China, they're crystal clear. Let me repeat: any large authoritarian power is a menace, and large authoritarian powers whose interests are not my own are potentially a menace to me. What does this imply? Exactly what it says on the tin: I'm no fan of any large authoritarian power, whether be the CCP or the GOP.
Do I strike you as a fan of the renting of Korea in twain, Park Jung-hee's brutal rule, the suffering accompanying a dirty and cruel industrialisation phase, and a supporter of extreme racism, sexism and homophobia because simply because I believe South Korea is a development success story? Do you think Koreans themselves are fans of this because they have some pride in their development story? Willing something better is not an acceptance of everything about it. (I'm amazed development happens at all, frankly, but small mercies).
This looks a lot like the Muslim hysteria barely five minutes ago: people jumping up and down histrionically about others they know nothing about. Lo and behold Halal is no longer taking over the world! Who'd have thought? And guess who was wrong? The same China hysteria merchants! The very bloody same people making the same mistakes. It's tiring, surely.
Look, it could be that the worst eventuates. But I don't see what the alternative is but to will along better outcomes. Are we going to stop trade? Shut down tourism? Persecute those who avail themselves of dangerous multicultural ideas? Pretend great power doesn't exist? Hope hundreds of millions stay suffering in dire poverty? Create a new Iraq fantasy where we invade China and replace the CCP with our own puppets and be greeted with hugs on the street? Just what realistic ideas do the chest beaters and fist wavers have except throwing tantrums of the sort witnessed above and self-mutilating by installing corrupt, incompetent halfwits as leaders?
Nope, as with Iraq, as with the Muslim hysteria, and as with the endless conspiracy hysterias, this juvenile BS will pass too, and the usual suspects will find a new Facebook fad to get all excited over. In fact, being masters of denying reality means they're probably our best gauge of reality.
Again, I still don't trust authoritarian power in any guise, Chinese or otherwise. But it is only sane to hope for the best and work to ensure it happens. The alternatives, if you can pin them down, are either more fanciful or outright destructive. As I always say: China simply must succeed.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | | ^ PTID, is that really helpful right now? |
well Supernanny, thats sitting him on the naughty step! |
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
Oh Bullshit x 2 |
| Morrigu wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
Oh Bullshit x 2 |
Nah bull elephant dung x 15 would be more accurate |
| think positive wrote: | | think positive wrote: | <snip – offensive language moderated. Thanks, David for BBMods.>
i only read a few snippets of the above garbage, (4 trumps and a couple of other names for him) and the last line as i knew it would be a tirade of name calling, somethings never change!
#fuckchina!
CHINA DID THIS! all. on. their. own!
and yes WHO are a $�$%^%%$ disgrace in all this, you want cowards and liars, thats where to look! |
are you $�$%^%%$ kidding me?? look at the post above, most of that line was directly taken from your godfather! dont see you moderating him! you could have taken out that one word.
he is the most offensive person here, look at what he calls americans. but thats ok? |
Offering life advice might be beyond my remit as a moderator, but I think the three of you need to have a proverbial Bex and a lie-down. It sounds like you're letting emotion get the better of you. I understand that things are tense right now, but I don't see any reason why we can't discuss these issues civilly.
If you can be bothered reading my posts here, you'll see that I and PTID actually disagree on quite a lot on this topic; I just don't feel the need to sling names at him (and I don't see him calling anyone here names either). |
Oh please save me pray tell where I have called him or you names in this post - I have never read so much sanctimonious crap and called it as I see it elephant dung!
Life advice is indeed way beyond your remit and your smartarse comment about a bex and a lie down is fairly typical and not unexpected. My issue with China is their animal welfare or complete lack of it and what they are doing to extinct so many species - let’s take one example rhino horn - keratin same as human finger nails - ? worth the cruelty and potential extinction of a species to satisfy a medieval cultural and now financially generated and social status need? I understand that pseudo intellectuals and people who think humans are way more important and deserving to life than animals like you given your previous posts won’t get that but stiff shit!
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Morrigu wrote: | | I understand that pseudo intellectuals and people who think humans are way more important and deserving to life than animals.... |
The eating of meat pies and hot dogs is hardly a niche hobby of the wealthy and (pseudo) intellectual, certainly in our culture.
I'm not taking a position on meat eating, just pointing this out.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^
Yeah, but 2 small points.
1. Killing domestic animals for food is hardly comparable with killing endangered species to use body parts for bogus vanity medicines.
2. China and the USA seem to have quite different understandings of what a "Hot Dog" is.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^I was just responding to what was said. Does Morrigu hold that distinction?
Obviously those who partake of this quackery don't think it's bogus, though. Those sorts of beliefs take a few generations to die out. You still find dog restaurants tucked away in Seoul backstreets even though they're technically illegal.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| ^Better nuke Seoul, then, too. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| pietillidie wrote: | ^I was just responding to what was said. Does Morrigu hold that distinction?
Obviously those who partake of this quackery don't think it's bogus, though. Those sorts of beliefs take a few generations to die out. You still find dog restaurants tucked away in Seoul backstreets even though they're technically illegal. |
I won't speak on behalf of Morrigu, but reference to the Rhino horn being made of fingernails, yet they're killed for bogus beliefs, quackery as you called it, that the WHO has apparently endorsed by legitimizing traditional Chinese medicine?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | the USA for all it's faults has been an ally of ours for decades. |
Did you hear Pompeo yesterday? I have no doubt we are better off with US as an ally than China but let's not think the US wouldn't shaft us in a second, if it was in their interest.
_________________
kill for collingwood! |
|
|
|
|
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| roar wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | the USA for all it's faults has been an ally of ours for decades. |
Did you hear Pompeo yesterday? I have no doubt we are better off with US as an ally than China but let's not think the US wouldn't shaft us in a second, if it was in their interest. |
Sometimes you have to tell a mate they're being a dickhead. In this case WE are the dickhead. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
