Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
The dangers of false accusations of racism

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern
 
Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Presti35 Virgo

Dick Lee for Legend Status


Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:16 pm
Post subject: The dangers of false accusations of racismReply with quote

Is this a real problem in society?

Have you ever been accused of being racist, wether it be at work, at school, in a social situation, or wherever?

I just worry that the term is being thrown around by some who dont understand what racism actually is, or use the term to get someone in trouble or get something they want. That isn't right. Are young people educated on racism and the dangers of falsely accusing someone?

I understand this is a very sensitive subject, and I'm not condoning real racism or looking to start an argument. I just believe that no one should be accused of something they are not.

Nothing can undo the years of wrongdoing in the past. 100s and 100's of years, and we know Australias history on this is not very good either. But this is 2022. Yes things can be better. Yes there is still a lot of work to do. Yes there's still a lot of pain. Yes there's still a lot of anger. Yes there's still a lot of learning we all need to do. I just think a part of becoming better is not using the term for the wrong reasons.

Mods if you feel the need to delete this, I understand.

_________________
A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:57 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

You raise an interesting question. I have no doubt that the term is being misused, I also have no doubt that we still have a lot of work to do as as a society.

I reserve the right to sleep on it and come back with more later.

_________________
noli illegitimi carborundum
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:25 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess there are a couple of things first up: do you mean false (as in, being accused of something you didn’t do or say), or exaggerated (as in, something that you didn’t think was a big deal being blown out of proportion)? Because if it’s the latter, that’s tricky – because, oftentimes, situations where there are different perceptions can arise from differing perspectives.

I’m not sure if this is what inspired this question, but as an example take what was recently revealed to have happened between Jeff Kennett and Cyril Rioli’s partner: he may not have intended to humiliate her in any specifically racist manner, but his "joke" did unfortunately mirror old racist tropes about Aboriginal people being too poor to afford proper clothes, and that’s apparently how she and Rioli interpreted it.

Now here’s the second question: what are the "dangers"? Some might say that she and Rioli were being unreasonable in interpreting the exchange that way and imagining racism where there wasn’t any. But that’s the thing with offence: it’s subjective, and how they feel is how they feel. If Kennett faced any consequences over it (say, if he were in a position where HR could get involved), then you might need some kind of neutral arbiter to assess what happened. But as it is, Rioli exercised his free choice to leave the club and later to talk about what happened, and Kennett hasn’t faced any negative consequences for it apart from feeling obliged to apologise. Neither have Rioli and his partner gained anything.

The dynamic might be different in other situations, but I must admit I’m not aware of any growing trend of people being wrongly fired or otherwise unfairly sanctioned as a result of misplaced accusations of racism. You might need to be a little more specific on that.

So if there’s an issue here it might be less about a term being misused than a general distrust between Aboriginal and (particularly powerful) white people that leads the former to sometimes not presume the best intentions on the latter’s part, and that’s a complex problem that may take a long time to resolve – and, crucially, will likely include a greater willingness to listen and pay attention to what Indigenous people are saying when they talk about racism, including in situations like the one above.

_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:35 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly on the Rioli thing, I don't think there was anything inherently racist in Kennet's crack about the ripped jeans, it was more generationalist. He likely would have said the same thing to a white woman, he's of the generation where ripped or patched clothes was a sign of poverty not a fashion statement. I queried my daughter a few years back when she bought a pair of jeans like that.

However, it doesn't matter what I think, the Rioli's interpretation of the remarks coming from their experiences is perfectly valid as are the choices they made.

Personally, I do think the word "Racist" is over used, particularly when combined with finger pointing and accusations at a person who may have made a racist remark but actually isn't a racist person.

We've come a long way, I can still remember some of the off hand comments made by people in the office when I first started work at 19 and cringe, we still have a way to go.

This is where more education and less finger pointing comes in, particularly around "casual racism". It can be common for people to make off the cuff remarks that are not intended to be racist, but can be interpreted that way depending on the culture or background of a person.

The best way to deal with those kinds of things are to call them out in the moment and not by pointing and shrieking "Racist" but by a conversation.

Hey mate, do you realise that what you just said, a person from X background/culture, could construe that as demeaning or racist for these reasons?

_________________
noli illegitimi carborundum
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
#26 Sagittarius

#26


Joined: 15 Jan 2022


PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:56 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're the type of person who generally finds dealing with people a pain in the ass, it complicates things when people, from historically oppressed groups, interpret it as bigotry instead of misanthropy. So spare a thought for the poor old misanthropes.

But seriously, as a cis gendered, heterosexual, white man, I've had to learn to be more empathetic, which is at odds with the me, me, me society we live in these days.

I used to be more flippant towards work colleagues and would think that if women, or people from other historically oppressed backgrounds, thought I was acting like that towards them because of "their identity" they were wrong because that's just how I was to everyone. But then I realized I was viewing the interactions from my perspective and not putting myself in their shoes. So if a woman, who has had to put up with sexism, interprets my flippancy as sexist condescension, it shouldn't be surprising if I practice empathy and see things from her perspective.

Looking at the Kennett issue, he said he spoke to Rioli's partner like he spoke to his children. But Jeff, she's not one of your children.


Last edited by #26 on Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
roar 



Joined: 01 Sep 2004


PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:15 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ Great post!
_________________
kill for collingwood!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:51 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

100%. And one shudders to think how a pompous old bully like Kennett would speak to his kids, so it doesn't really make things better.

What seems clear to me from the exchange as reported is that, racist or otherwise, he intended it as a putdown at the very least. And merely cracking the joke would have been bad enough, but actually getting the money out of his wallet and mock-offering it to her really doubles down on the insult. So even if it had nothing to do with race, I totally understand the Riolis being seriously pissed off with the guy.

_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
eddiesmith Taurus

Lets get ready to Rumble


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:32 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

He sounds like 90% of boomers who say the exact same thing about people with ripped jeans. Couldn't afford the rest of them is pretty common from that generation.

But the OP is right that racism is thrown around anytime anything negative is said about people of a different race or colour. It's not new, I grew up with kids who every time they got in trouble at school they'd cry racism.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:45 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
100%. And one shudders to think how a pompous old bully like Kennett would speak to his kids, so it doesn't really make things better.

What seems clear to me from the exchange as reported is that, racist or otherwise, he intended it as a putdown at the very least. And merely cracking the joke would have been bad enough, but actually getting the money out of his wallet and mock-offering it to her really doubles down on the insult. So even if it had nothing to do with race, I totally understand the Riolis being seriously pissed off with the guy.


is that what hew did???

omg they should put that out there, thats beyond disgusting


earlier in the year on HWONY a black lady was carrying on like a 2 bob watch, and someone said your a very angry woman (to say the least!!! and she says "so im an angry black woman" no i said your an angry woman.

ok so maybe that was a thing, but what are you suposed to say? not have conversations? not pull people up,

its not fair that she stuck the word in there

because the first statement was very true

_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Presti35 Virgo

Dick Lee for Legend Status


Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:35 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

My OP is not influenced by the Cyril/Kennet story that is currently in the news. It's been on my mind for a very long time.
_________________
A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger  
David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:55 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

In that case, apologies for presuming otherwise (and sending the thread off on a different track)! What are some examples you’d point to of what you’re thinking of here?
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
#26 Sagittarius

#26


Joined: 15 Jan 2022


PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:47 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's one https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/25/us/false-racism-internet-mob-chipotle-video/index.html
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:47 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

For sure, though I feel like the problems in that article exist whether or not the accusation is true – the two main issues are people online rushing to judgement and getting the pitchforks out, and the spinelessness of employers who cut workers loose at the drop of a hat. (Chipotle’s behaviour as described in the article is reprehensible, as is that of the internet cowards who posted threats and abuse to this woman.)

There’ll always be opportunists like the men at the restaurant who latch on to whatever they can grab hold of to get the upper hand in a situation, but that’s a small price to pay for greater societal understanding of and resistance to racism. Perhaps, more generally, we would do better to avoid jumping to conclusions (though that’s a tricky goal to square with being able to confront racism in the moment, as we should). In this case, a bystander confronting the employee and asking why the men were being refused entry would have been far preferable to passively recording the exchange and posting it online for clout. What’s decisively not an acceptable outcome is everything else that happened in that article – that’s a major social problem that needs to be tackled in its own right, I feel.

_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:11 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^^

Good article.

David, I think you mis read part of it, it wasn't a bystander who passively filmed it and posted it online, it was one of the men being asked to pay before being served.

The online furore was entirely predictable and the references to confirmation bias spot on.

I'll reserve judgement on the employer, we don't know whether they did any form of investigation, you'd think that just speaking to the co workers should have cleared it up, but US labour laws are different to ours and they may have just acted the same way regardless.

The most concerning part for me is not just that people believe what suits them and pile onto an alleged perpetrator, but the horrible remarks they can make that they think for some reason are appropriate

_________________
noli illegitimi carborundum
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:57 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the Rioli case, his Uncle Michael Long has a different take on the whole situation.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/cyril-rioli-racism-row-2022-michael-long-says-his-nephew-and-hawthorn-premiership-great-has-changed/news-story/62d182ad929cd47ac1c92cd5de26b5f0

It seems Cyril has been estranged from most of his family and friends for several years. Reading between the lines, my view is his wife is the source of the problem. Emphasis, my view.

_________________
noli illegitimi carborundum
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern All times are GMT + 10 Hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group