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Pre Match. Pies v. Blues. All comments please.

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MightyMagpie 



Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 9:54 pm
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Moore had the third highest Champion Data rating for Collingwood vs Eagles. No chance he will be dropped.
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Presti35 Virgo

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Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:12 pm
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I wouldn't rush Varcoe back, last thing I want to see is him coming off with another hammy. He needs to be 100% ready, not 99%, 100%!

Sadly, the club is in a spot where we have to bring in players who have not really earned a call up.

Did Sinclair pull up ok, or has he suffered some more concussion?

And of course its very unlikely Langdon will come up after the ankle.

So there are two probable outs: Langdon & Sinclair.

Will there be any omissions?

Broomhead had a very quiet match against WCE. Do we give him another chance? 7 touches and 2 goals. I say he stays in, but he needs to show us his pace and attack on the ball. How was his VFL form going into the WCE game?

Greenwood must show us why we traded for him. This is a big chance for him to get the pill and do something with it. He should go head to head with Gibbs.

Nathan Brown was beaten by Kennedy. The problem against Carlton is that they do not have a genuine FF. Can Reid/Frost cover anything Carlton have up forward? I don't think Brown deserves to be dropped, but is there an opponent for him?

When looking into the VFL:

Last Weeks Best Players: J. White, B. MacAffer, T. Cloke, J. Hellier, B. Crocker, J. Viola.

Two Weeks Ago's Best Players: J. Viola, J. White, J. Hellier, B. Crocker, M. Hore, M. Goodyear.

Goals kicked over the last 2 games: (AFL listed only)
3 Cloke
3 Phillips
3 Wyatt
2 Crocker
1 Wills

So who could come in?:

I thinks it's reasonable to suggest that Cloke will and should play this week. 2 weeks in the seconds should be enough. He needs to get in and kick a bag. Hammer them Clokey.

Jesse White. God I hate to even suggest this. But he would be some chance after 2 good games in the seconds. With the Sack out injured, White will be our back up tall.

Crocker would also come into discussion after 2 good games. He should see some AFL action at some stage if not this week. It'll be interesting to see what he does in the VFL this week, if not named in the AFL. At worst, I think he'd be one of the emergencies.

Brent Macaffer will probably come into discussions after his game last week. He is in the leadership group, but I would rather see him back up his form with another game in the seconds.

I almost forgot, the 2 players who flew over to WA as emergencies:
James Aish and Matthew Goodyear. What do do in this situation? It's a bit rough to fly to Perth and miss a chance to put your case forward. Aish should be in our best 22. I really want to see him get games, but I don't think it sends a good message to drop him and then bring him back after not playing a VFL match. It is possible that either could be considered to replace Sinclair.

Pretty tough to make a call, but after all that, I think we might see, OUT: Langdon, Sinclair. IN: Cloke, Crocker. Emergencies: White, Macaffer, Aish (Feeling horrible for Goodyear).

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piedys Taurus

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Joined: 04 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:22 pm
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At least Weitering is out for THEM, and can't embarrass our forward line....
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Jezza Taurus

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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:56 pm
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I saw enough yesterday to convince me that we should beat Carlton comfortably despite losing by ten goals in the end.

Carlton were terrible against Essendon despite their win. I'll be interested to see how Bucks goes against Brendon Bolton as he clearly had the wood over Mick during his Carlton stint, so I wonder if anything will be different this time with Bolton at the helm.

We need to win to keep our season rolling and ensure that our head to head record against Carlton continues to edge closer!

I understand the reluctance to not bring back Varcoe instantly but his absence this season has been evident. He can break the lines and has much-needed pace and class that the current team is desperately lacking at the moment. Cloke hasn't done anything significant in the VFL to warrant a return and Mason Cox is showing enough to retain his spot in the side. At least Cox's presence seems to lift the team at the moment so I'd be happy to keep him in for another week.

Very likely Langdon (ankle) and possibly Sinclair (concussion) won't play this week so some forced changes will need to be made to replace those two.

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Jezza Taurus

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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 10:58 pm
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piedys wrote:
At least Weitering is out for THEM, and can't embarrass our forward line....

Weitering's out for at least three weeks. I wonder if Cripps will play after he was a late withdrawal against Essendon due to calf tightness.

If Cripps is out, then our worry to not require to nullify his influence in the midfield will benefit us greatly.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 11:26 pm
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You never quite know which Collingwood will turn up - but assuming it's our average, we'll win comfortably. Despite the appalling first and last quarters, we showed some good spirit and form in the second and third, and stretched Wet Coats on their home dump. I really think we are not too far away from clicking into some decent form, as the team gets used to playing with each other. Cox and Treloar are starting to look as though they fit in, and Cloke should come in to play a normal CHF role. Getting Adams or Varcoe back would certainly help.

I do not believe that the players are not playing to win, or playing for Buckley. If they had wanted to kill Buckley's tenure, they could have done so on Anzac Day, yet they came out breathing fire. They just need to get a squad with enough experience together to tighten up a plan that can work ok when it is well applied.
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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:27 am
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RudeBoy wrote:
jackcass wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
Assuming Adams will miss a couple more weeks, Broomhead should be replaced by Varcoe and Langdon (inj) by Wills or Crocker.


Have Wills and Crocker been playing in defense? Why would they slip ahead of Aish and Goodyear who were emergencies Sunday?


Varcoe to give us run off the back line.

Crocker or Wills to replace Broomhead up forward.

I'm not as convinced about Aish and reckon he needs 4-6 weeks of VFL footy to improve his game. As for Goodyear, he could certainly get a game, but Wills and Crocker have looked more impressive in the VFL imo.


I'm not quite as convinced about Varcoe, assuming he returns, playing out of defense. Think he offers more HF/wing.

We do have other options assuming Sinclair pulls up okay. Smith, Oxley, Tooves and Maynard still in the team unless dropped. We probably were overstocked for HBFer types.

Haven't seen enough of Wills and Crocker so happy to defer to those that have.
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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:37 am
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Rick wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
jackcass wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
Assuming Adams will miss a couple more weeks, Broomhead should be replaced by Varcoe and Langdon (inj) by Wills or Crocker.


Have Wills and Crocker been playing in defense? Why would they slip ahead of Aish and Goodyear who were emergencies Sunday?


Varcoe to give us run off the back line.

Crocker or Wills to replace Broomhead up forward.

I'm not as convinced about Aish and reckon he needs 4-6 weeks of VFL footy to improve his game. As for Goodyear, he could certainly get a game, but Wills and Crocker have looked more impressive in the VFL imo.


I worry when a young player (Goodyear) is held over as an emergency and fails to play at any level. I'm pretty sure that's happened a couple of times already this season with him and Maynard. Surely it isn't good for their development. I'd rather he go back to the VFL and force his way back in.


Conversely, it's a long season for immature bodies so an occasional week off could also be a good thing in managing them. I don't know either way, just musing that it might not be such a bad thing.
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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:46 am
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MightyMagpie wrote:
Moore had the third highest Champion Data rating for Collingwood vs Eagles. No chance he will be dropped.


Not sure how much sway CD ranking has at selections. Equally he had the 4th lowest FA ranking so which takes precedence. Either way it'll be the fact he's being asked too much as a developing player to take on the number 1 KPF slot that'll decide it. Don't think he'll be dropped but a block of VFL games where he can get his hands on the footy wouldn't hurt him.
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:41 am
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jackcass wrote:
Rick wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
jackcass wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
Assuming Adams will miss a couple more weeks, Broomhead should be replaced by Varcoe and Langdon (inj) by Wills or Crocker.


Have Wills and Crocker been playing in defense? Why would they slip ahead of Aish and Goodyear who were emergencies Sunday?


Varcoe to give us run off the back line.

Crocker or Wills to replace Broomhead up forward.

I'm not as convinced about Aish and reckon he needs 4-6 weeks of VFL footy to improve his game. As for Goodyear, he could certainly get a game, but Wills and Crocker have looked more impressive in the VFL imo.


I worry when a young player (Goodyear) is held over as an emergency and fails to play at any level. I'm pretty sure that's happened a couple of times already this season with him and Maynard. Surely it isn't good for their development. I'd rather he go back to the VFL and force his way back in.


Conversely, it's a long season for immature bodies so an occasional week off could also be a good thing in managing them. I don't know either way, just musing that it might not be such a bad thing.


and Maynard looked bloody terrific this weekend. Along with Blair, I thought Maynard was the shining light in the debacle.

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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:07 am
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I've mellowed a little towards Jesse White. I'd drop Frost who's sadly out of form and bring in White at CHB. I'd tell White that he has 4-6 games in a row in the seniors to prove himself. Play well in those games and he has a contract for 2017. Play poorly and be dropped again and it's goodbye career as an AFL player. I'd use every trick in the coaching manual bar electric shock treatment to get him to concentrate for 100 minutes. I'd have him train alongside Mason Cox and remind him every 5 minutes that Cox has done more in two AFL games than he (White) has done in his 10 year AFL career.
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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:50 am
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jackcass wrote:
MightyMagpie wrote:
Moore had the third highest Champion Data rating for Collingwood vs Eagles. No chance he will be dropped.


Not sure how much sway CD ranking has at selections. Equally he had the 4th lowest FA ranking so which takes precedence. Either way it'll be the fact he's being asked too much as a developing player to take on the number 1 KPF slot that'll decide it. Don't think he'll be dropped but a block of VFL games where he can get his hands on the footy wouldn't hurt him.

Every player at Collingwood, including the youngest to the oldest, is developing their footy game, because the game of AFL football is evolving each year due to rule changes and coaching innovations. Moore just happens to be one of the youngest players at Collingwood and it's immaterial whether he plays the easiest position on the field or the hardest. He took over the number one mantle KPF slot from Cloke early in the season and has done everything you could have expected from a player with his inexperience. He is going to become a champion player over the next 10 years and will be compared with Cameron, Boyd and Danaher when he finishes his career. For that reason he won't be dropped now or ever, in my opinion. When Cloke returns to the senior side it won't be at the expense of Moore's position.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:07 am
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BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
I've mellowed a little towards Jesse White. I'd drop Frost who's sadly out of form and bring in White at CHB. I'd tell White that he has 4-6 games in a row in the seniors to prove himself. Play well in those games and he has a contract for 2017. Play poorly and be dropped again and it's goodbye career as an AFL player. I'd use every trick in the coaching manual bar electric shock treatment to get him to concentrate for 100 minutes. I'd have him train alongside Mason Cox and remind him every 5 minutes that Cox has done more in two AFL games than he (White) has done in his 10 year AFL career.

I'm not a great wrap for Frost but he was one of our best against Essendon and I doubt that he went from being able to virtually close down his opponent to being "sadly out of form" in the space of 6 days. All players have their limitations (and, IMO, he has more than many other players) but his job is made virtually impossible when the midfield is being destroyed as it was on the weekend.
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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:21 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
I've mellowed a little towards Jesse White. I'd drop Frost who's sadly out of form and bring in White at CHB. I'd tell White that he has 4-6 games in a row in the seniors to prove himself. Play well in those games and he has a contract for 2017. Play poorly and be dropped again and it's goodbye career as an AFL player. I'd use every trick in the coaching manual bar electric shock treatment to get him to concentrate for 100 minutes. I'd have him train alongside Mason Cox and remind him every 5 minutes that Cox has done more in two AFL games than he (White) has done in his 10 year AFL career.

I'm not a great wrap for Frost but he was one of our best against Essendon and I doubt that he went from being able to virtually close down his opponent to being "sadly out of form" in the space of 6 days. All players have their limitations (and, IMO, he has more than many other players) but his job is made virtually impossible when the midfield is being destroyed as it was on the weekend.

These days the goals are coming from the rebound out of defence, or through the transition from defence to attack. Frost is just playing as a stopper, or spoiler, bringing the ball to ground, or pushing it towards the boundary line. He's never been a good kick, but he used to get the ball off quickly through a handball, or short kick, to get it out of defence. White is a better and longer kick and a ball carrier who can gain meters on the field. In theory he offers much more than Frost, but in practice as we all know, he doesn't execute what he shows in theory.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:27 am
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BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
jackcass wrote:
MightyMagpie wrote:
Moore had the third highest Champion Data rating for Collingwood vs Eagles. No chance he will be dropped.


Not sure how much sway CD ranking has at selections. Equally he had the 4th lowest FA ranking so which takes precedence. Either way it'll be the fact he's being asked too much as a developing player to take on the number 1 KPF slot that'll decide it. Don't think he'll be dropped but a block of VFL games where he can get his hands on the footy wouldn't hurt him.

Every player at Collingwood, including the youngest to the oldest, is developing their footy game, because the game of AFL football is evolving each year due to rule changes and coaching innovations. Moore just happens to be one of the youngest players at Collingwood and it's immaterial whether he plays the easiest position on the field or the hardest. He took over the number one mantle KPF slot from Cloke early in the season and has done everything you could have expected from a player with his inexperience. He is going to become a champion player over the next 10 years and will be compared with Cameron, Boyd and Danaher when he finishes his career. For that reason he won't be dropped now or ever, in my opinion. When Cloke returns to the senior side it won't be at the expense of Moore's position.

Let's be blunt. I couldn't care less about Moore's development for the future this weekend - Collingwood must never "get games into the kids" against Carlton. If he's in the best 22 on form in the Coach's opinion, he should play. If not, he shouldn't. There are 20 matches a season that aren't against this mob and, as a long-standing Carlton-hater, I prefer to see us - in these matches only - send out a team to win on the day, rather than one to be "better in the future". In the scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter in a development sense who plays against Carlton. What does matter is the win.
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