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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:18 am
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Tannin wrote:
Trump's constant fanning of outrage and hatred among his supporters, and his deliberate blindness to white terror has led to this: right now, today, it is judged necessary to station 20,000 troops - yes, that is twenty thousand soldiers in Washington just to keep the peace.

There are more American soldiers in Washington than there are in Iraq and Afghanistan both put together.


It's an absurd overreaction to compensate for the bizarrely complacent response the first time around. The thing a lot of people don't seem to be talking about in all this is how a relatively small group of mostly unarmed crazies actually managed to get into the Capitol Building to begin with (after posting about their intentions to do so online for days previously, to boot!). A moderate police presence (certainly a lot less than 20,000!) could have easily held them at bay and essentially rendered the unrest a minor story that most people would have forgotten about by now.

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roar 



Joined: 01 Sep 2004


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:34 am
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Not sure it is an overreaction, tbh. Better to have a force that will stop things before they start than a force that will be "just enough" to deal with an attack.
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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:09 am
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That makes sense, but this still feels like an excessively overcompensatory show of force. They could have had the same effect with far smaller numbers, but I suspect this is all about making a point.
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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:46 pm
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Nonsense David.

It's not about stopping a few thousand Proud Boys and assorted other Trump Thugs starting another deadly riot. (Though it is much better to be sure than sorry, as Roar says.)

It is about stopping a handful of gun-crazy Trumpistas starting a massacre.

One crazy with an automatic weapon can murder 50 or 100 people. America is full of automatic weapons. And it is full of Trump-supporting crazies. It's a recipe for carnage. The question isn't whether 20,000 soldiers is too many. The question is whether 20,000 soldiers is enough.

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm
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I think the biggest surprise for me of the last four years is that there hasn’t been more political violence. These people have guns, as you say, and ostensibly believe that they are for the purpose of resisting tyranny. They also mostly seem to believe that the election was stolen from them. So where were they all when the Capitol was stormed? Where were they during the BLM protests? Where, for that matter, were the assassination attempts on Obama that liberals darkly muttered about throughout his administration?

My theory is that most of these gun nuts are cowards and aren’t ultimately terribly interested in risking their own lives for "freedom" or being inconvenienced in any way. All this militia stuff is mostly a pose – they’d rather grumble in YouTube comments sections and take selfies with their rifle collection than actually seriously contemplate getting into a firefight with police or getting arrested. We saw the craziest of the craziest at the Capitol a few weeks ago, and shooting was conspicuously absent.

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:12 pm
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I really really wouldn't use the "gun nuts are cowards"line if you ever visit the USA.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:13 pm
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Yes - because telling them the truth to their faces might upset them.
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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:32 pm
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Colbert hosts Bernie Sanders: well worth watching this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmh7pcytW5g

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:32 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
I really really wouldn't use the "gun nuts are cowards"line if you ever visit the USA.


Having a gun and threatening someone with it certainly doesn’t make someone any less of one.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:59 am
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Tannin wrote:
Colbert hosts Bernie Sanders: well worth watching this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmh7pcytW5g

That is really promising.

You have to hand it both wings of the party for finding the right niche for the right person (Bernie) to deal with things that business and shonky opportunists only make much worse (the pandemic, healthcare, climate change, the minimum wage, etc.).

Meanwhile, the centrists can work with corporations to get business activity moving in a positive direction (aside from shrill far right business sponsors, fossil fuels crazies and Wall Street opportunists, why wouldn't business be happy given Trump's mismanagement and instability has almost completely trashed the economy and business activity?).

Hopefully, this turns out to be that rare balance you need in government between the social (stability; optimism; access; productivity; safety; fairness) and the economic (growth; efficiency; technology; specialisation; adaptation; contribution). That's the sort of balance that the Hawke-Keating government had from right to left wing within the same party.

Government might always let you down in the end, but it's about moving the ball forward 10% and get things going in the right direction. That 10% is all that's needed for people to start participating and producing with a hopeful mindset. That in turn can act as somewhat of a damper on far right (and left) lunacy.

That's the optimistic spin, which I'll take for now given the misery heaped on us all over the past year. The US has a long way to go to arrest the flailing and flakiness, but you have to stay hopeful. Fundamentally, if they can't deal with the wealth gap, the instability it causes will keep dragging us all down.

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Last edited by pietillidie on Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:10 am
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David wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
I really really wouldn't use the "gun nuts are cowards"line if you ever visit the USA.


Having a gun and threatening someone with it certainly doesn’t make someone any less of one.


Agreed, but just owning guns without threatening anyone doesn't make you a coward. It's an incorrect insulting generalisation that wouldn't be received well.

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: in a time zone

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:18 am
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Lol, I'm hardly saying that! My point is that if you're stockpiling guns purely for the sake of one day forming a militia and overthrowing the government (i.e. literally what the Second Amendment is for and why many of these people say they're pro-gun) and you feel the election was illegitimate and stolen from your candidate of your choice by your enemies, one might think that now is your moment and that the rest of the country should be worried about what you might do. But I really don't think most of those people actually have the stomach for doing any of this and I suspect that it's all just tough talk.
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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:09 am
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I say that this far rightwing sizzle will be greater than the sausage they cook. All froth, bubble and bluster from a small group of crazies and nutters. I could be wrong of course but I predict a few blowhard wankers making a bloody nuisance of themselves.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:21 am
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How do you distinguish between the “crazies” and the “nutters”, Lazza?
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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:26 am
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Yeah good point, I can’t. They are both made from the same cloth.
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