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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:11 pm
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Oh, there is no arguing the fact that US defence spending is ridiculous. They could cut it in half and still have by far the strongest military force on Earth. Trouble is, they waste two-thirds of it. Given their woeful efficiency, and given the need to deal with Chinese aggression, they have to maintain their current spend, or something approximating it.

By far the cheapest way to cope with China's ambitions to wipe out Taiwan, followed by Vietnam, then Japan and bits of India, is to stop it before it starts.

We failed there - they have already militarised important international waters via their artificial islands - but we are not too late to stop the rot before it goes any further. Like it or not, the US is vital to this.

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:12 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
The spend a lot more on health and social security and neither of those systems work.

Article from 2015 about the myth of defence spending.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/


That's a fact check of some meme I've never seen before, not a repudiation of the (correct) perception that America spends too much on its military.

16% defence spending (as per the Politifact article) vs 3% on education. Let that sink in. (For sake of comparison, Australia spends more than three times as much on education as it does on defence – 7% of GDP vs 2%)

Tannin wrote:
Oh, there is no arguing the fact that US defence spending is ridiculous. They could cut it in half and still have by far the strongest military force on Earth. Trouble is, they waste two-thirds of it.


So why not cut it by two-thirds and rationalise the sector? The buck ultimately stops with the government, and if they're allowing hundreds of billions to be pissed down the drain every year on inefficient defence spending (while so many other essential services remain under-funded), then WTF are they doing?

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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:21 pm
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David wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
The spend a lot more on health and social security and neither of those systems work.

Article from 2015 about the myth of defence spending.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/


That's a fact check of some meme I've never seen before, not a repudiation of the (correct) perception that America spends too much on its military.

16% defence spending (as per the Politifact article) vs 3% on education. Let that sink in.



Education is not federally funded, defence is.

Quote:
The federal government does not officially fund or govern education; this is within the purview of each state. However, the government does mete out a significant amount of funding to states for education based on criteria set by the federal government, therefore it does exert some influence over the state-run systems with its funding. The state governments gather and distribute a significant amount of funding for schools through state sales and income taxes, lotteries, and property taxes. Local governments also often contribute through their respective taxation systems as well.


https://www.teach-nology.com/edleadership/funding_for_schools/

The USA spends as much on Education as any other country (equal first in funding per student with Switzerland) for some of the worst results. Pretty much same story as Health and Social Security

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:29 pm
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Whatever the case, Sanders' point is that the US should have universal healthcare (among other things), and the only reason they currently don't is supposedly because it would cost too much. Yet they could save $400 billion a year by cutting defence spending in half and still be by far the biggest military superpower in the world (as if that status were even necessary in order to be able to protect their own borders and help maintain global peace, or whatever it is Americans think it is that their military does). It seems like a pretty easy decision to me.
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:51 pm
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Sorry that's bullshit talk by Sanders. The US health system is horribly complicated. The US already spends more than double what we do per capita.

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries

Their whole system would need to be re-designed from the ground up before you could get the kind of universal health care we have here and in the UK.

Like Defence, social security, name something, it's not the amount of money they spend on things that is the problem, it's that the systems are futterly ucked.

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doriswilgus 



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:37 pm
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I must say it’s not looking good for Trump.I’m starting to think that he mightn’t be able to hold onto power after all.Oh,wait a minute.........
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:46 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Sorry that's bullshit talk by Sanders. The US health system is horribly complicated. The US already spends more than double what we do per capita.

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries

Their whole system would need to be re-designed from the ground up before you could get the kind of universal health care we have here and in the UK.

Like Defence, social security, name something, it's not the amount of money they spend on things that is the problem, it's that the systems are futterly ucked.
it should be redesigned from the ground up.
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:55 pm
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think positive wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Sorry that's bullshit talk by Sanders. The US health system is horribly complicated. The US already spends more than double what we do per capita.

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries

Their whole system would need to be re-designed from the ground up before you could get the kind of universal health care we have here and in the UK.

Like Defence, social security, name something, it's not the amount of money they spend on things that is the problem, it's that the systems are futterly ucked.
it should be redesigned from the ground up.


The problem is, the same system that delivers lousy care delivers great research outcomes. Hospitals are private, state funded, LGA funded and all sorts of combinations of the 3 with zero consistency.

Our system is just not transportable to them, redesigning the system would require cooperation from the states and counties and the private entities.

1 alternative would be to create a government run insurance scheme (which would be against everything the country stands for) that provides free emergency care for anyone on Social Security but the problem with that is many of the poor and disadvantaged aren't on social security.

The perception that you can fix a problem by throwing money at it only demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the problem.

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David Libra

Speak about destruction


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:26 pm
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think positive wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Sorry that's bullshit talk by Sanders. The US health system is horribly complicated. The US already spends more than double what we do per capita.

https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2020/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries

Their whole system would need to be re-designed from the ground up before you could get the kind of universal health care we have here and in the UK.

Like Defence, social security, name something, it's not the amount of money they spend on things that is the problem, it's that the systems are futterly ucked.
it should be redesigned from the ground up.


100%. Specifically, the insurance companies need to be taken on and defeated; it’s largely because of them, and the hodgepodge mix of private and public healthcare (the latter mostly for seniors and army veterans), inconsistent state laws and the employer contribution, that US healthcare is such an expensive, bureaucratic, inaccessible nightmare. Medicare for all would probably actually be cheaper in the long run because it would remove a lot of those inefficiencies and middlemen from the system. At this stage it’s such a mess that there’s pretty much no alternative but to tear it all down. There’s absolutely no reason why it can’t be done. It’s not about throwing money at the problem without a plan attached; it’s about working out precisely what needs to be done, working out how much it will cost (incl. to divert funding and responsibilities from the states), and then directing the right amount of money at it.

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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:59 pm
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David wrote:
Specifically, the insurance companies need to be taken on and defeated; it’s largely because of them, and the hodgepodge mix of private and public healthcare (the latter mostly for seniors and army veterans), inconsistent state laws and the employer contribution, that Australian healthcare is such an expensive, bureaucratic, inaccessible nightmare. Medicare for all would probably actually be cheaper in the long run because it would remove a lot of those inefficiencies and middlemen from the system.


Sorry, bit of a misquote there - but your words seem to fit the misquote as well as they do in the original.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:34 pm
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doriswilgus wrote:
I must say it’s not looking good for Trump.I’m starting to think that he mightn’t be able to hold onto power after all.Oh,wait a minute.........

Did they finish counting the votes, yet, Doris?
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stui magpie Gemini

Oh, the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Escaping Danistan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:14 pm
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Tannin wrote:
David wrote:
Specifically, the insurance companies need to be taken on and defeated; it’s largely because of them, and the hodgepodge mix of private and public healthcare (the latter mostly for seniors and army veterans), inconsistent state laws and the employer contribution, that Australian healthcare is such an expensive, bureaucratic, inaccessible nightmare. Medicare for all would probably actually be cheaper in the long run because it would remove a lot of those inefficiencies and middlemen from the system.


Sorry, bit of a misquote there - but your words seem to fit the misquote as well as they do in the original.


nah, bullshit.

Our system is by no means perfect but it's pretty damn good

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doriswilgus 



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:23 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
doriswilgus wrote:
I must say it’s not looking good for Trump.I’m starting to think that he mightn’t be able to hold onto power after all.Oh,wait a minute.........

Did they finish counting the votes, yet, Doris?


Almost but not quite finished yet.And there’s still the possibility of the courts deciding the election.And if that fails,there’s always the chance of another insurrection.So still not over yet. Smile
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:25 am
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Good. I like a close game.
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Tannin 

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Ballarat

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:50 am
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Stui, you are saying that the Australian healthcare system is NOT

* expensive?
* bureaucratic?
* inaccessible?
* nightmare?

You have fair-dinkum rocks in your head. The American system is worse, of course, any fool knows that, but pretending that the Australian health system is in good shape is laughably naive.

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