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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | It’s certainly not his job to keep lying about it, Jezza. |
Damn shame. Coz he's bloody good at it.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Another cringeworthy tirade from Captain Coronavirus. That's his leadership energy budget spent until the next supermarket aisle toddler tantrum, even as the nation awaits guidance.
How is it possible to have such a floundering, flailing, incompetent, petulant mental case in such a serious position and not be able to get rid of him? It must feel a nightmare they can't wake up from.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Pietilidie, do you read history? I direct your attention to, for example, middle and late Imperial Rome, France under the Ancien Régime, and Byzantium anytime after about 700. All of these include examples of individuals as insane as Trump - well, close anyway - in charge of mighty nations.
In all three cases, these palpably insane individuals were determined to somehow make their empire great again, and all three empires were in fact experiencing chaos, dysfunction, and ever-growing civil conflict leading to their terminal decline and fall.
Always, we see a sequence of civil madness and decline, followed by an outburst of relative sanity under a new, generally sensible leader or two, followed by yet another buffoon even worse than the one we thought the worst-ever until then.
America is doomed. Trump is as much a symptom as a cause. America will recover somewhat under Biden, but the madness will eventually resume under some other nutter seemingly determined to out-Trump Trump. You can bet money on it.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Here's a reminder of how annoying the liberal press can be in covering Trump:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/12/what-is-obamagate-and-why-is-trump-so-worked-up-about-it
| Quote: | So what exact crime is Trump accusing Obama of committing?
The president himself does not seem to know. “‘Obamagate’,” he ruminated in the White House rose garden on Monday. “It’s been going on for a long time. It’s been going on from before I even got elected. And it’s a disgrace that it happened.”
Asked by a Washington Post reporter for the second time to name Obama’s exact offence, Trump replied cryptically: “You know what the crime is. The crime is very obvious to everybody. All you have to do is read the newspapers, except yours.”
Clear as mud, then. |
This supposed explainer explains nothing. But anyone who's been following these things will know that Trump has long accused Obama of authorising spying on him during the 2016 election campaign (and honestly, who'd be surprised if it were true?).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spygate_(conspiracy_theory)
While that claim seems to have been debunked (though I can't say I've looked into it closely enough to be sure; it's not like US intelligence agencies are exactly transparent about their activities), I do wish media outlets like The Guardian wouldn't play dumb with this stuff. You're not talking heads on a cable news opinion show passing the time by chatting about whatever comes into your head; you're actually supposed to inform the public. If you're a serious journalist, that is, which I concede is a big "if".
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^ Nonsense. Trump is making a claim, it is up to him to state what exactly that claim is.
Any other view is ridiculous.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It’s fine for a hard news report to say that he "made a cryptic remark" and leave it at that. No problem there. Figuring out what he meant is what analysis is meant for, and that’s what articles like this are promising.
To be clear, I’m not saying that every news outlet should feel they have to chase every random kite Trump flies out and bring it back like a golden retriever. But if they’re going to devote an analysis piece to a claim the president made, I’m not sure what the point is in pretending to not know what he’s talking about – or else, if they’re legitimately confused, in not having a quick look around for someone who works for the paper who doesn’t have a goldfish memory and asking them.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^I know what you mean as a general point, but the charge needs to be defined by those claiming it exists, as Tannin says. Also, fluffing about by the media is not really on the same planet of egregiousness as leaderlessness and incompetence in the face of tens of thousands of dead people, millions unemployed, and millions facing bankruptcy (wait until the tranche of personal financial and medical bankruptcies start flowing through), even if it's an interesting aside for those who ride the media cycle like yourself (I don't say that disparagingly; media analysis is one of your specialities and interests, and is a perfectly noble and necessary pursuit).
| Tannin wrote: | Pietilidie, do you read history? I direct your attention to, for example, middle and late Imperial Rome, France under the Ancien Régime, and Byzantium anytime after about 700. All of these include examples of individuals as insane as Trump - well, close anyway - in charge of mighty nations.
In all three cases, these palpably insane individuals were determined to somehow make their empire great again, and all three empires were in fact experiencing chaos, dysfunction, and ever-growing civil conflict leading to their terminal decline and fall.
Always, we see a sequence of civil madness and decline, followed by an outburst of relative sanity under a new, generally sensible leader or two, followed by yet another buffoon even worse than the one we thought the worst-ever until then.
America is doomed. Trump is as much a symptom as a cause. America will recover somewhat under Biden, but the madness will eventually resume under some other nutter seemingly determined to out-Trump Trump. You can bet money on it. |
I've lacked the confidence in my knowledge of the field to make the comparison, but you're in very good company with your argument. It smells awfully similar, that's for sure.
I too get the feeling that the US is finished — lost wars, depressions, countless backward crazies taking the reins of fundamental social institutions such as courts, corrupt cronies as far as the eye can see, a complete inability to do the basics such as provide proper health care and protection from gun violence, a void of quality party leaders, a new habit of blindly lashing out rather than engaging in thoughtful strategy, a parasiting off reserve currency status, a parasiting off global talent and dirty industries in lieu of serious local people development, an inability to counter political capture and ludicrous returns to capital, an inability to invest in people except to save the investments of the wealthy, a universal loss of face and admiration, and above all a lurching from clueless moron Bush to unstable mental case Trump — say the county is pretty screwed.
The sane and moderate may never overcome the combination of backward forces (nationalist fanatics, the Christian Taliban, heartland fantasists, utopian libertarian cults, anti-science conspiracy theorists, etc.) and robber barons ever again, courtesy of Citizens United.
My head says the only hope now is a managed decline, as if trying to make someone on their last legs comfortable in a care home. In fact, the analogy is apt because the body politic was that weak a single virus has virtually killed it. Of course, the economy will rebound, and that will get the usual crazies all worked up and fist waving again, but again my head says it will merely be a dead cat bounce. Here's Krugman on the mechanics: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/opinion/coronavirus-depression.html
That said, I feel for Americans who recognise what's going on because they're trapped below deck of a vessel fast taking on water, and they're being drowned out by energised lunatics puncturing the life rafts in a combination of stupidity and spite. As much as I love seeing robber barons and pitchforked mobs get their own, I genuinely hope it's just a scare that will right itself as acceptance of reality evolved into a more mature, pragmatic, accepting multilateralism.
But then you look at Trump, an utterly pathetic and mentally unhinged piece of garbage in the most powerful position in the land, and you hear the religious delusions that sustain his unwavering congregation, and you think nope, it's all over red rover.
Hope for the best but plan very seriously for the worst where the US is concerned, I'm afraid.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Another record for Captain Coronavirus:
| The NYT wrote: | | The United States recorded its largest monthly deficit in history in April as the government began funneling billions of dollars of stimulus funds to cushion the economy from the coronavirus pandemic. |
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/business/stock-market-live-coronavirus.html
His deficit levels were already astronomical before the crisis thanks to his tax cuts for billionaires, military spending and vanity wall. But this is the icing on the cake for someone who specialises in leveraging others into paying his debts.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Eloquent posting. We are on the same page here, PTID.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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If the USA goes to the wall we're all in deep shit, China will take over.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | If the USA goes to the wall we're all in deep shit, China will take over. |
yup! and ill be the first to say i told you so! better the devil you know!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | If the USA goes to the wall we're all in deep shit, China will take over. |
Is that the wall the Mexicans are paying for? 😉
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| pietillidie wrote: | Another record for Captain Coronavirus:
| The NYT wrote: | | The United States recorded its largest monthly deficit in history in April as the government began funneling billions of dollars of stimulus funds to cushion the economy from the coronavirus pandemic. |
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/business/stock-market-live-coronavirus.html
His deficit levels were already astronomical before the crisis thanks to his tax cuts for billionaires, military spending and vanity wall. But this is the icing on the cake for someone who specialises in leveraging others into paying his debts. |
Correct weight. The US deficit pre corona virus was astronomical before Trump decided to give tax cuts to billionaires.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | If the USA goes to the wall we're all in deep shit, China will take over. |
Is that the wall the Mexicans are paying for? 😉 |
The Mexicans aren't just paying for it, they're now building it to keep the virus ridden Americans north of the border. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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